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      08-15-2014, 02:32 AM   #1
connortam
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M235i v Golf R - Chris Harris

Here we go,

On paper, they are the direct competitor to each other!

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      08-15-2014, 03:35 AM   #2
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Thanks, although I wonder if they are really direct competitors?!

As a hatch owner (M135i), that's primarily what I buy; previous car was an Audi S3, and I certainly thought about either another S3, or the Golf R along with the M135i as potential replacements. No 2 door coupe was on my list, even though the M235i is a nice car.
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      08-15-2014, 07:45 AM   #3
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Agree with ttimbo..!
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      08-15-2014, 11:04 AM   #4
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Thanks for sharing.,
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      08-16-2014, 03:12 AM   #5
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Add me to the list, I wouldn't cross-shop these two cars, the only relevant thing here is that the M235i is very close if not identical in some areas to the M135i so it's worth paying attention.

I guess we have to pay/subscribe now if we want to know the verdict, I read that the Chris Harris show format has been changed.
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      08-16-2014, 05:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILUSV View Post
I guess we have to pay/subscribe now if we want to know the verdict, I read that the Chris Harris show format has been changed.
I'm subscribed to drive+ and that version of this video is 12 minutes long.
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      08-16-2014, 09:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewcornish View Post
I'm subscribed to drive+ and that version of this video is 12 minutes long.
so what's the verdict?
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      08-16-2014, 10:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILUSV View Post
so what's the verdict?
Chris Feels like the Golf R suspension is better and it's ton of fun but likes the 235i more because it's rear drive. I think they are competitors because I love my wife's MkV GTI but wanted something faster. So I am looking at it also. I found the M235i suspension too soft and not sorted out myself. But it's hard to go without rear drive!

I wish they offered a firm fixed M-Sport like my 330i ZHP or my buddy's 2011 335i M-Sport for free without the buttons or having to gut it right after you buy it. Sadly, the Golf R also has suspension buttons so there you go again. One thing about the Golf R that he didn't mention is that it is an incredibly good small car for carrying 4 people compared to 1 or 2 series and that might sway a few in its direction.

They are competitors because they are both fast, fun cars with comparable performance and both offer MT. If I had to carry two teens every day or lived in snow country, nod would go to Golf R. Otherwise, I also prefer RWD too but who knows. I can't wait to drive the R with a manual trans. Also, the Golf does have a dual clutch auto whereas the M235i does not. Don't get me wrong here, I don't care about that. I think the 235i auto is fine the way it is but a bunch of people online were lamenting not getting a dual clutch unit. Personally, I don't see why anyone buys this type of car with auto anyway, but I actually like the non DCT auto more than DCT. It's quick enough and smoother than DCT.
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      08-16-2014, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I wish they offered a firm fixed M-Sport like my 330i ZHP or my buddy's 2011 335i M-Sport for free without the buttons or having to gut it right after you buy it.
Isn't there a Performance suspension available for those who like it stiffer?
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      08-16-2014, 11:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Chris Feels like the Golf R suspension is better and it's ton of fun but likes the 235i more because it's rear drive. I think they are competitors because I love my wife's MkV GTI but wanted something faster. So I am looking at it also. I found the M235i suspension too soft and not sorted out myself. But it's hard to go without rear drive!

I wish they offered a firm fixed M-Sport like my 330i ZHP or my buddy's 2011 335i M-Sport for free without the buttons or having to gut it right after you buy it. Sadly, the Golf R also has suspension buttons so there you go again. One thing about the Golf R that he didn't mention is that it is an incredibly good small car for carrying 4 people compared to 1 or 2 series and that might sway a few in its direction.

They are competitors because they are both fast, fun cars with comparable performance and both offer MT. If I had to carry two teens every day or lived in snow country, nod would go to Golf R. Otherwise, I also prefer RWD too but who knows. I can't wait to drive the R with a manual trans. Also, the Golf does have a dual clutch auto whereas the M235i does not. Don't get me wrong here, I don't care about that. I think the 235i auto is fine the way it is but a bunch of people online were lamenting not getting a dual clutch unit. Personally, I don't see why anyone buys this type of car with auto anyway, but I actually like the non DCT auto more than DCT. It's quick enough and smoother than DCT.

Thanks for the write-up; I'm a big fan of the GTI (owned many of them). I think it really comes down to RWD. He mention something about the 2 series having a better rear axel, I do have problems putting the power down at times, I wonder of this issue has been sorted out with the 2 series.
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      08-16-2014, 07:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Isn't there a Performance suspension available for those who like it stiffer?
They offer one but you have to buy the car and pay extra for it. So essentially you pay for sports coupe with soft suspension, then have to pay extra to have it torn apart and put another suspension in. I think that is not cool. In the past you could order the fixed M-Sport or EDC. Now you are stuck with EDC, and have to pay extra for the optional suspension.
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      08-16-2014, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILUSV View Post
Thanks for the write-up; I'm a big fan of the GTI (owned many of them). I think it really comes down to RWD. He mention something about the 2 series having a better rear axel, I do have problems putting the power down at times, I wonder of this issue has been sorted out with the 2 series.
That's the other point that is being missed here. He was comparing the stock $35K Golf R with a 44K plus modifications like a $2400 limited slip differential. I wonder how he would've felt with a bone stock M235i with no LSD?

Getting power down is the big issue now with so much torque at 1500-1800 RPM. That was a big problem with the 1M too. I actually found myself wishing for a slightly higher torque curb so the car could hook up, the accelerate. I think the LSD should be standard with this car, then they should put the M-Sport Full Lock unit in the M2.
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      08-17-2014, 01:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
They offer one but you have to buy the car and pay extra for it. So essentially you pay for sports coupe with soft suspension, then have to pay extra to have it torn apart and put another suspension in. I think that is not cool. In the past you could order the fixed M-Sport or EDC. Now you are stuck with EDC, and have to pay extra for the optional suspension.
So you can not order the car with Performance suspension from the factory for a lower price than a full retrofit?
And I guess the options vary from country to country. I have the fixed M-Sport suspension on our 116i.
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      08-17-2014, 10:52 AM   #14
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Adaptive suspension is optional and you can choose between Comfort and Sport+.
You should pay also for LSD and that's it
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      08-17-2014, 12:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
Adaptive suspension is optional and you can choose between Comfort and Sport+.
You should pay also for LSD and that's it
Sadly, not in North America. EDC is mandatory.
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      08-17-2014, 05:35 PM   #16
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I have been driving a M135i since Jan 2013, found it fast, compact (i wouldnt call it small), easy to cruise on highway and stuck in traffic in the city.

My friend just bought a mk7 Golf R, test drove it briefly, found it smaller, has louder exhaust notes, more planted on the ground due to the awd system.

Still like the 135 for its fun oriented rwd, better steering feel and higher graded cabin.

I still believe that 235i used the same chassis, engine, cabin and drivetrain as 135i, or i should say the difference is pretty negligible.

it comes down to your personal preference, hatchback or coupe, rwd or awd, if you like awd, then you need to choose again from MB, Audi or VW.
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      08-18-2014, 12:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connortam View Post
it comes down to your personal preference, hatchback or coupe, rwd or awd, if you like awd, then you need to choose again from MB, Audi or VW.
In most countries we drive on the right side of the road, and the F20/F21 is available in AWD.

I don't quite understand why BMW chose to miss out on some big markets by dropping right hand all wheel drive and USA completely.
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      08-18-2014, 09:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
That's the other point that is being missed here. He was comparing the stock $35K Golf R with a 44K plus modifications like a $2400 limited slip differential. I wonder how he would've felt with a bone stock M235i with no LSD?

Getting power down is the big issue now with so much torque at 1500-1800 RPM. That was a big problem with the 1M too. I actually found myself wishing for a slightly higher torque curb so the car could hook up, the accelerate. I think the LSD should be standard with this car, then they should put the M-Sport Full Lock unit in the M2.
I hear you; the M135 needs a LSD more than anything.
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      08-18-2014, 11:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILUSV View Post
I hear you; the M135 needs a LSD more than anything.

They all do in my opinion. Especially with the high torque motors. I think it's a shame that BMW sells premium cars without one. I don't expect them to put the ///M Full lock diff in every car but they can put a 20% Limited slip in all their turbo cars. I am surprised so many look the other way at this. It is lame. My 12K Bone stock Nissan Sentra SER back in 1993 had a limited slip diff!!

BMW can't put on in for a 45-50K car???
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      08-18-2014, 12:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
They all do in my opinion. Especially with the high torque motors. I think it's a shame that BMW sells premium cars without one. I don't expect them to put the ///M Full lock diff in every car but they can put a 20% Limited slip in all their turbo cars. I am surprised so many look the other way at this. It is lame. My 12K Bone stock Nissan Sentra SER back in 1993 had a limited slip diff!!

BMW can't put on in for a 45-50K car???
Actually the ABS brake operated fake limited slip differential does a fairly good job on the 116i. It gets the power down really well, better than my two previous BMWs with mechanical 25% LSD.
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      08-18-2014, 05:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Actually the ABS brake operated fake limited slip differential does a fairly good job on the 116i. It gets the power down really well, better than my two previous BMWs with mechanical 25% LSD.
I know but not paying for fake anything. It really should have a good real LSD in my opinion or at least optional from factory. The full lock ///M diff for M cars.

That's my opinion.
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      11-24-2014, 07:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
In most countries we drive on the right side of the road, and the F20/F21 is available in AWD.

I don't quite understand why BMW chose to miss out on some big markets by dropping right hand all wheel drive and USA completely.
I suspect the following:

For the USA, their market research told them that people want BMW with RWD only. The same market research that told them that people didn't want an M3 with SMG.

For the RHD markets, I think it's simply a question of not being able to fit the parts without major re-engineering (probably not easy to recoup given likely volumes) of some. It's a durned tight fit under that bonnet.
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