BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Heads or tails? The BMW 1er Compactive Sport Tourer and The MINI Traveller
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      07-25-2011, 08:58 AM   #45
SCOTT26
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This is the real deal (I think) about the headlights.
Actually, because The Compactive Sport Tourer will be a 1er - The Bloodline that begins with the F20 is apparent on this car. The headlights also follow through with the extra "arrow" point because for BMW it illustrates a new interpretation for the headlights because the BMW shape is now intensively immitated by our competitors either in shape or characteristic double round headlamps. It is only natural for BMW to carve out some new inspiration in it's much xeroxed features by competitors and other manufacturers.

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If nothing else the CNBC show underscores this point above all - in the end there is nothing in the game that BMW continues to master.
BMW sets the rules and maintains a level with no other players.
The question is nothing to do with BMW eroding their brand or slipping up so that the competition are fast catching up.
If anything BMW products remain to speak for themselves and this is evident not only in sales , but image and the cars themselves.
Why is it with all key segments the top car is a BMW?

Personally I believe the competition are catching up because they are immitating the BMW image in every where possible especially with marketing. Even when it is nothing like how a BMW drives. I see some ads go on about the dynamism etc when testing proves otherwise compared to the BMW.
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      07-25-2011, 10:13 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY View Post
Believe or not .. but there are plenty of compact fwd cars having great handling. For ex. euro spec ford focus and ford fiesta. And it this field, bmw should try all its best to impress ppl. I , myself, dont like fords for its chipness and lack of quality but focus handles great.



Lets just wait and see if it will have any. 'cos I remeber when 1er is first introduced - it had nothing great inside of it. I mean euro spec 116 hatch.
I don't doubt that there are any good handling FWD cars out there - see: MINI. Ford Focus/Fiesta are also good candidates but with those cars, outside of the handling, there's not much else going for it.

Will BMW have the best interior? Probably not but they're not ugly either. If the interior of the upcoming 1er hatch is any indication of what BMW will do, I think it would fit perfectly with the compact.
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      07-28-2011, 07:20 PM   #47
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I don't know why some of you are pretending like there's no fun to drive FWD hatchback with premium feel out there. Did we all forget about the GTI? That is the car that created the entire segment for god's sake. And at its current iteration, it is an excellent small car that is both practical and fun with a nice interior. Plus it looks about a thousand times better than the F20.

I personally don't buy the argument that this won't dilute the brand because even though it's FWD, it will somehow distinguish itself from other as the driver's choice. Well, according to AutoCar the F20 already failed to do that against the FWD rivals. So why do we think that the FWD version would be better? Keep in mind that their recent offerings are no longer the sportiest in their segments, and consistently so. This is a pattern, not a fluke.

BMW is moving towards the middle, becoming more and more like MB. That is their way of tapping into the mainstream luxury market, and it has so far proven successful. They are counting on the brand image to keep the customers that desire something sporty, while attracting new, more mainstream customers. It seems to be working, judging by so many members here automatically assuming that this car will be the driver's car in its segment. I remain skeptical. To be clear, I don't worry about exclusivity, but I do worry about the loss of character that made this company what it is today.
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      08-02-2011, 08:23 PM   #48
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Both of those cars look really horrible.

Or maybe I am not in the target market..
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      08-03-2011, 05:45 PM   #49
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"Well, according to AutoCar the F20 already failed to do that against the FWD rivals. So why do we think that the FWD version would be better? Keep in mind that their recent offerings are no longer the sportiest in their segments, and consistently so. This is a pattern, not a fluke.

BMW is moving towards the middle, becoming more and more like MB. That is their way of tapping into the mainstream luxury market, and it has so far proven successful. They are counting on the brand image to keep the customers that desire something sporty, while attracting new, more mainstream customers. It seems to be working, judging by so many members here automatically assuming that this car will be the driver's car in its segment. I remain skeptical. To be clear, I don't worry about exclusivity, but I do worry about the loss of character that made this company what it is today."

Nicely said, and exactly the way I feel.

.............When I bought my 335i coupe, I thought I would just move to the redesign when it happened. With the reviews of the 5, 6, and 7, I have a roving eye.

I would love if the new 2 coupe hits a sweet spot with me, but there are many offerings coming out that just might do it better.
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      08-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Propagator View Post
I don't know why some of you are pretending like there's no fun to drive FWD hatchback with premium feel out there. Did we all forget about the GTI? That is the car that created the entire segment for god's sake. And at its current iteration, it is an excellent small car that is both practical and fun with a nice interior. Plus it looks about a thousand times better than the F20.
+1,000,000. Though I think most enthusiasts would prefer RWD, a FWD platform can be well-executed and fun to drive.

To me, the current iteration of BMW is like a teenager going through puberty and we enthusiasts are like concerned parents. We're watching our once-precious child go through some VERY awkward moments (i.e. the e65 and 5er GT) and we're concerned about the kid's future.

Realistically, if BMW is to remain a profitable yet independent company, they have to appeal to buys who don't know FWD from RWD or care about 50/50 weight distribution. Hopefully, what doesn't get lost on BMW is that mass-market appeal, profitability, and driving pleasure are NOT mutually exlusive. Look at Subaru/Toyota and the BR-Z/FR-S. If BMW could bring forth a nimble, light, and fun-to-drive car with relatively few frills that showcased their abilities as an "Ultimate driving machine", it would go a long way toward addressing enthusiast concerns. Oh... and stop slapping ///M badges all over everything. That's just annoying.
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      08-31-2012, 09:45 PM   #51
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If the sketch is accurate, looks rather promising and much more interesting than the B class. FWD is a no brainer as packaging is paramount in such a car. Good to have the choice.
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      09-09-2012, 09:46 PM   #52
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Personally I don't like this small-van type of design, the sort of squashed proportions a lot of electric/hybrid/city cars have.

I've traditionally liked BMW for the way the company seemed to stick to its vision of what a great driving (and looking) car should be, regardless of the market, unlike a GM or (lately) Honda, which frequently seem to chase the market to capture trends, often with less-than-stellar results.

I like this comment, from the creator of another valuable brand:

"We didn’t build the Mac for anybody else. We built it for ourselves. We were the group of people who were going to judge whether it was great or not. We weren’t going to go out and do market research. We just wanted to build the best thing we could build.”
– Steve Jobs, 1985

This is how BMW used to seem to me. As an enthusiast who has driven and owned the classic 02-series cars and is now planning to buy a 1-series (E82 or E88), I’d be interested in seeing (along with the more traditional offerings) an electric or maybe hybrid version of the upcoming 2er - like the ActiveE - with the more traditional proportions of a sports coupe, the kind of car BMW defined so well. I always thought a sporty electric coupe with fundamentals basically like the original 02-series would be cool.

Jobs also reportedly said, "It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."

While needing to make sales is understandable, I hope BMW sticks to its original vision and follows guidelines like Jobs'. As for me, I'm going to be interested in the dynamics, styling, and basic durability of a car, and if BMW loses any of those things - regardless of its “image” - I'll be nostalgic for the company’s better days, but look to other brands.

It is worrisome that at least one magazine I know of has found BMW losing some of its legendary feel and great driving dynamics (“2013 Audi S6 vs. 2013 BMW M5, 2012 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG,” Car and Driver, June 2012).

Last edited by faucj; 09-09-2012 at 10:04 PM.
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