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      07-24-2011, 10:42 AM   #23
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That BMW hatch is pretty nice looking. make it small, make it light and price it right and USA buyers will buy it..
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      07-24-2011, 10:47 AM   #24
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I think it looks good... Dare I say, I actually like how it looks on paper better than the new 1er....
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      07-24-2011, 11:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The MINI Traveller will be longer than the next Clubman which now becomes more like a stylised Shooting Brake. Traveller is also taller and more spacious.
Then why have the Countryman which is already a taller and more spacious MINI. This really is BMW shooting for a tiny gap in the existing lineup. I own a Countryman and have owned a Clubman, I wouldn't buy a Traveller.

I do very much like the look of the 1er Compactive Sport Tourer, I'm also really looking forward to the F.A.S.T have you got any recent renders? Also will the F.A.S.T be bigger than the Compactive Sport Tourer.

I really like where BMW is heading with these new models (just not sure about the Traveller).
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      07-24-2011, 11:26 AM   #26
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When Scott says "distinctive family headlight shape" I hope the family is limited to the 1 series family and does not include the 2 series coupes and convertibles. BMW needs to quarantine that ugly before it can spread any further.
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      07-24-2011, 12:09 PM   #27
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I don't understand what BMW is doing with their brand. They are killing it. If BMW's become just as common as a Honda or Toyota, customers will have a hard time justifying the cost of the 3 series on up. BMW has always been a premium brand but now they are destroying so what, they can be the biggest??? Horrible, horrible decision by the executives there. Seriously, when people start looking at a small BMW and thinking, "Oh, that probably cost about $30,000" then why am I going to pay $50,000 for my 3er??? I don't want to have to explain all the upgrades...it should be readily apparent.
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      07-24-2011, 12:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
I don't understand what BMW is doing with their brand. They are killing it. If BMW's become just as common as a Honda or Toyota, customers will have a hard time justifying the cost of the 3 series on up. BMW has always been a premium brand but now they are destroying so what, they can be the biggest??? Horrible, horrible decision by the executives there. Seriously, when people start looking at a small BMW and thinking, "Oh, that probably cost about $30,000" then why am I going to pay $50,000 for my 3er??? I don't want to have to explain all the upgrades...it should be readily apparent.
They don't care that the streets are flooded with BMW's. In the CNBC documentary, one of the guys said all they care about is that when a customer buys their cars, they know it's the car for them - BMW is and will always be considered a drivers car. Whether you choose to believe that or not, is up to you.

BMW is still a premium brand, but that doesn't mean they stop at what they have right now. I'll admit, some of their decisions lately are questionable but this new 1er compact, if BMW can get it right on all aspects (design, quality, driving dynamics, price), why shouldn't they go for it? How many cars do you know that are compact, good handling, highly fuel efficient also have a luxury or semi-luxury feel to it? Why can't someone who wants a compact also drive something that looks nice with good materials and not just have plastic thrown everywhere?

If someone can't differentiate this and a 3er and for which market, then that's on that person. As a driver, I hardly feel the need to help BMW with their marketing. Sure if someone comes up to me and asks me a simple question about my car, I'll answer them but I drive for my benefit and not anyone else.

Last edited by TheBingoBalls; 07-24-2011 at 01:08 PM.
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      07-24-2011, 12:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
I don't understand what BMW is doing with their brand. They are killing it. If BMW's become just as common as a Honda or Toyota, customers will have a hard time justifying the cost of the 3 series on up. BMW has always been a premium brand but now they are destroying so what, they can be the biggest??? Horrible, horrible decision by the executives there. Seriously, when people start looking at a small BMW and thinking, "Oh, that probably cost about $30,000" then why am I going to pay $50,000 for my 3er??? I don't want to have to explain all the upgrades...it should be readily apparent.
So what are you worried about here? That people won't know how much money you spent on your car? Seriously, if you don't believe there is enough of a difference between a 328iX and the new FWD 1-er models -- other than it's perceived cost to other people -- then you probably don't understand what BMW is doing at all.
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      07-24-2011, 12:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
They don't care that the streets are flooded with BMW's. In the CNBC documentary, one of the guys said all they care about is that when a customer buys their cars, they know it's the car for them - BMW is and will always be considered a drivers car. Whether you choose to believe that or not, is up to you.

BMW is still a premium brand, but that doesn't mean they stop at what they have right now. I'll admit, some of their decisions lately are questionable but this new 1er compact, if BMW can get it right on all aspects (design, quality, driving dynamics, price), why shouldn't they go for it? How many cars do you know that are compact, good handling, highly fuel efficient and also have a luxury or semi-luxury feel to it? Why can't someone who wants a compact also drive something that looks nice with good materials and not just have plastic thrown everywhere?

If someone can't differentiate this and a 3er and for which market, then that's on that person. As a driver, I hardly feel the need to help BMW with their marketing. Sure if someone comes up to me and asks me a simple question about my car, I'll answer them but I drive for my benefit and not anyone else.
Great post
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      07-24-2011, 02:54 PM   #31
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This is the real deal (I think) about the headlights.
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      07-24-2011, 03:43 PM   #32
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Looks like the natural evolution of HONDA FR-V.
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      07-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
I don't understand what BMW is doing with their brand. They are killing it. If BMW's become just as common as a Honda or Toyota, customers will have a hard time justifying the cost of the 3 series on up. BMW has always been a premium brand but now they are destroying so what, they can be the biggest???
In the US they aren't so common but in Europe you'll see more BMW's than you'll see Toyotas. People in Europe buying top of the line 760iL's don't appear to give a crap about the guy down the road driving a 116d, why should it be any different in the US?
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      07-24-2011, 04:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
They don't care that the streets are flooded with BMW's. In the CNBC documentary, one of the guys said all they care about is that when a customer buys their cars, they know it's the car for them - BMW is and will always be considered a drivers car. Whether you choose to believe that or not, is up to you.

BMW is still a premium brand, but that doesn't mean they stop at what they have right now. I'll admit, some of their decisions lately are questionable but this new 1er compact, if BMW can get it right on all aspects (design, quality, driving dynamics, price), why shouldn't they go for it? How many cars do you know that are compact, good handling, highly fuel efficient also have a luxury or semi-luxury feel to it? Why can't someone who wants a compact also drive something that looks nice with good materials and not just have plastic thrown everywhere?

If someone can't differentiate this and a 3er and for which market, then that's on that person. As a driver, I hardly feel the need to help BMW with their marketing. Sure if someone comes up to me and asks me a simple question about my car, I'll answer them but I drive for my benefit and not anyone else.
I saw the documentary too and I cringed a little when they said that. I am a fan of BMW's and therefore hope to see them continue to do well. I've also studied a good deal of marketing and not many companies do well when eroding their brand equity. This is a total paradigm shift for BMW and as such it should not be taken so lightly. Of course, I'm on a 1er "addicts" board so I won't be heard by many here.
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Last edited by lawgone; 07-24-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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      07-24-2011, 04:30 PM   #35
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Is any way to see the CNBC documentary. I missed the opportunity when it was live. Ty!
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      07-24-2011, 04:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
So what are you worried about here? That people won't know how much money you spent on your car? Seriously, if you don't believe there is enough of a difference between a 328iX and the new FWD 1-er models -- other than it's perceived cost to other people -- then you probably don't understand what BMW is doing at all.
Attempted insult aside, you need to take yourself out of the mindset of a fanatic...which you and I both are or we wouldn't be here. I'm talking about the perception of the average future buyer. Rightly or wrongly, cost is very often perceived to roughly equal value. If BMW is perceived to be making Honda Fit's, they will have a much harder time convincing that the much higher cost of their upper end models is justified. Honda's most expensive sedan is around $35,000. BMW's is around $110,000. Those are VERY different market segments. Notice Honda, Toyota, GM...they all have different brands for their premium market segment. What would you say to a Cadillac hatchback that looks like a Civic? Premium brands have tried to go down market in the past and it was a disaster. Look at when Mercedes tried it with their little hatchback or when Cadillac sold the Catera. If BMW wants to compete in that lower market segment, they should create another brand or stick with Mini.

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Looks like the natural evolution of HONDA FR-V.
Bingo!
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      07-24-2011, 04:40 PM   #37
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Is any way to see the CNBC documentary. I missed the opportunity when it was live. Ty!
They haven't posted the whole thing but you can get the gist of it here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43395673
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      07-24-2011, 05:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
Attempted insult aside, you need to take yourself out of the mindset of a fanatic...which you and I both are or we wouldn't be here. I'm talking about the perception of the average future buyer. Rightly or wrongly, cost is very often perceived to roughly equal value. If BMW is perceived to be making Honda Fit's, they will have a much harder time convincing that the much higher cost of their upper end models is justified. Honda's most expensive sedan is around $35,000. BMW's is around $110,000. Those are VERY different market segments. Notice Honda, Toyota, GM...they all have different brands for their premium market segment. What would you say to a Cadillac hatchback that looks like a Civic? Premium brands have tried to go down market in the past and it was a disaster. Look at when Mercedes tried it with their little hatchback or when Cadillac sold the Catera. If BMW wants to compete in that lower market segment, they should create another brand or stick with Mini.



Bingo!
Sorry if it came across as an attempted insult, I probably deleted about 5 full on insults before posting that. I see what you are getting at, people that only buy a 7 series for bragging rights will have egg on their faces, personally I have faith that BMW products are able to stand up on their merits, as well as their image..

If I'm wrong, and 10 years from now there is no BMW ///M, no BMW 3 series, 5 series, 7 series, and all remaining BMW's are Front wheel drive.. then I'll concede this decision was a bad one... in the mean-time, all I ask is that people open their minds, and if they can't accept the future must include more economical models, and that diversification will help them remain independent then please, go ahead, and buy an Audi, or a Mercedes, or a Lexus.. and see exactly where that gets you in comparison.
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      07-24-2011, 05:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
Attempted insult aside, you need to take yourself out of the mindset of a fanatic...which you and I both are or we wouldn't be here. I'm talking about the perception of the average future buyer. Rightly or wrongly, cost is very often perceived to roughly equal value. If BMW is perceived to be making Honda Fit's, they will have a much harder time convincing that the much higher cost of their upper end models is justified. Honda's most expensive sedan is around $35,000. BMW's is around $110,000. Those are VERY different market segments. Notice Honda, Toyota, GM...they all have different brands for their premium market segment. What would you say to a Cadillac hatchback that looks like a Civic? Premium brands have tried to go down market in the past and it was a disaster. Look at when Mercedes tried it with their little hatchback or when Cadillac sold the Catera. If BMW wants to compete in that lower market segment, they should create another brand or stick with Mini.
I get your point but I don't agree. If the average consumer knows that BMW is sport/performance first, luxury second, then what you and me say doesn't matter because they understand what BMW's main focus is on. If they don't and simply see BMW as just a luxury brand, then BMW had no business introducing the 3-Series.

You can throw in any comparison with other manufacturers but the fact remains, BMW's focus is to only make cars that are built on top of a solid foundation that has made them what they are today - performance/handling. Everything else, the technology, the luxury touches all come second. They're not like Toyota where they have to differentiate between luxury and economy lines, BMW only has one line - performance/handling.

But let's give the average consumer some credit. I think most know who, what and why the 3, 5 and 7-Series are built for and I don't think there will be any confusion with the 1-Series compact.

Last edited by TheBingoBalls; 07-24-2011 at 05:48 PM.
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      07-24-2011, 06:04 PM   #40
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No worries.
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      07-24-2011, 06:10 PM   #41
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My point...why risk it? Call it something else, make it look different. Don't erode your brand.
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      07-25-2011, 02:54 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
...
How many cars do you know that are compact, good handling, highly fuel efficient also have a luxury or semi-luxury feel to it?
Believe or not .. but there are plenty of compact fwd cars having great handling. For ex. euro spec ford focus and ford fiesta. And it this field, bmw should try all its best to impress ppl. I , myself, dont like fords for its chipness and lack of quality but focus handles great.

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Why can't someone who wants a compact also drive something that looks nice with good materials and not just have plastic thrown everywhere?
Lets just wait and see if it will have any. 'cos I remeber when 1er is first introduced - it had nothing great inside of it. I mean euro spec 116 hatch.
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      07-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #43
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I like this BMW render
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      07-25-2011, 06:41 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
They don't care that the streets are flooded with BMW's. In the CNBC documentary ... that doesn't mean they stop at what they have right now.
... if BMW can get it right on all aspects (design, quality, driving dynamics, price), why shouldn't they go for it?

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Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
How many cars do you know that are compact, good handling, highly fuel efficient also have a luxury or semi-luxury feel to it?
Excellent summation.
If nothing else the CNBC show underscores this point above all - in the end there is nothing in the game that BMW continues to master.
BMW sets the rules and maintains a level with no other players.
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