[DSB335d]

Out of the $190M in fines only $5M goes to "refunding" affected customers... No compensation to customers?

Looks like the real winners are the lawmakers and politicians

Try to research what happens to the money received by CFPB once fines are paid... They don't have to disclose how the money is spent. Nothing but corrupt Bullshit!! Local governments spend monies received from fines on whatever bullshit they want.

It's really infuriating what these assholes can get away with!! 5,300 employees fired... Why aren't people going to jail?!! Wells Fargo still has 265K+ employees and I doubt a single individual in upper management was fired.

Fuck this shit.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by DSB335d

Out of the $190M in fines only $5M goes to "refunding" affected customers... No compensation to customers?

Looks like the real winners are the lawmakers and politicians

Try to research what happens to the money received by CFPB once fines are paid... They don't have to disclose how the money is spent. Nothing but corrupt Bullshit!! Local governments spend monies received from fines on whatever bullshit they want.

It's really infuriating what these assholes can get away with!! 5,300 employees fired... Why aren't people going to jail?!! Wells Fargo still has 265K+ employees and I doubt a single individual in upper management was fired.

Fuck this shit.

EXACTLY!

[smoosh]

Originally Posted by DSB335d

Out of the $190M in fines only $5M goes to "refunding" affected customers... No compensation to customers?

Looks like the real winners are the lawmakers and politicians

Try to research what happens to the money received by CFPB once fines are paid... They don't have to disclose how the money is spent. Nothing but corrupt Bullshit!! Local governments spend monies received from fines on whatever bullshit they want.

It's really infuriating what these assholes can get away with!! 5,300 employees fired... Why aren't people going to jail?!! Wells Fargo still has 265K+ employees and I doubt a single individual in upper management was fired.

Fuck this shit.

While I agree the fines should be apportioned better, I don't see the good in compensating victims of this fraud...that would be unjust enrichment. But again, the local government is also being unjustly enriched, which isn't right...

[oolas3]

5300 employees means this fraudulent behavior was postively encouraged by the upper ranks. The CFPB's fine is just the tip of the iceberg as wait until the private lawyers start circling. I'm predicting you will see two types of lawsuits. One by fired employees arguing that they were essentially encouraged and trained to defraud customers to keep their jobs. The other lawsuits will be customers who had their credit damaged and had to pay bogus fees. In this case, Wells Fargo has what's coming to them.

[smoosh]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

5300 employees means this fraudulent behavior was postively encouraged by the upper ranks. The CFPB's fine is just the tip of the iceberg as wait until the private lawyers start circling. I'm predicting you will see two types of lawsuits. One by fired employees arguing that they were essentially encouraged to defraud customers to keep their jobs. The other lawsuits will be customers who had their credit damaged and had to pay bogus fees. In this case, Wells Fargo has what's coming to them.

And the attorneys lodging that class action lawsuit also have what's coming to them...$$$

[jpnh]

Aside from coverage of the real/actual costs associated with prosecution. Government should not recieve ANY money from this

Compensation should properly reflect this along with compensation to victims to make them "whole"

Otherwise these prosecutions morph into another tool to be abused to raise money like civil asset forfeiture has

[Lups]

Banks...

I was a customer of one of the biggest banks in north Europe till this summer. I've used their services for 20 years and repeatedly I've given them my id to copy over the years. So...

We moved back, I transferred about 200k from USA back to my euro account and all was fine for a month. The money went to my trading account and for six weeks I didn't even make a profit on it.

I started to get letters from them demanding to know the origin of the money. I stated it was transferred from finland to usa and back and that tax office has been informed that I have cash that I move around. I mean, the money went from my account to my account.

They needed further information and the letter asked me a picture of my passport. I've spent about an hour per week on the phone with them explaining to them that if they can not fucking get the words in their letter right, and they want the passport page with identification information to be included, they will only get from me a picture of my passport.

I'm so done with them. I've transferred all my business elsewhere already but I'm so bored that I'm taking legal action against them if they keep sending my information to the money laundering department of our dear police force just because they can not fucking fix their letters.

Yes. A rant. I fucking hate banks.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Aside from coverage of the real/actual costs associated with prosecution. Government should not recieve ANY money from this

Compensation should properly reflect this along with compensation to victims to make them "whole"

Otherwise these prosecutions morph into another tool to be abused to raise money like civil asset forfeiture has

That would have no deterrent effect if companies only had to pay back what they owe. It just encourages risky bad behavior because your potential losses are predictable and fixed. Btw, I'm against most civil asset forfeiture too but this is completely different.

[leopard print]

I was a personal banker with Wells Fargo right out of college. They "sold" the job very well in interviews and training saying it would be more along the lines of financial advising. When I was placed in my branch that all changed at it was all about numbers and how many products we could push on customers. I saw first hand how many shady things people were doing just to hit sales goals. My branch manager even knew what was going on but turned a blind eye because it just made her branch look better. I quit after 5 months because I no longer wanted to be a part of it. Looking back, I don't know why it took me that long. When I gave my branch manager my resignation letter I highlighted reasons why I was leaving. She asked me to delete all the details and basically said it would make her look bad to the district manager.

[ASAP]

Only small CU's for me.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Lups

Banks...

I was a customer of one of the biggest banks in north Europe till this summer. I've used their services for 20 years and repeatedly I've given them my id to copy over the years. So...

We moved back, I transferred about 200k from USA back to my euro account and all was fine for a month. The money went to my trading account and for six weeks I didn't even make a profit on it.

I started to get letters from them demanding to know the origin of the money. I stated it was transferred from finland to usa and back and that tax office has been informed that I have cash that I move around. I mean, the money went from my account to my account.

They needed further information and the letter asked me a picture of my passport. I've spent about an hour per week on the phone with them explaining to them that if they can not fucking get the words in their letter right, and they want the passport page with identification information to be included, they will only get from me a picture of my passport.

I'm so done with them. I've transferred all my business elsewhere already but I'm so bored that I'm taking legal action against them if they keep sending my information to the money laundering department of our dear police force just because they can not fucking fix their letters.

Yes. A rant. I fucking hate banks.

That's regulations, not the banks.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

That's regulations, not the banks.

I'm fully aware of the regulations and now I'm just mad at my former bank for dragging this along for nine months because they haven't bothered to do their job and they keep asking me for information i have multiple times given to them. The latest one from them, asking for my passport was given to them back in January, they have copies of the damn thing in their files. They apparently have issues with their filing system and instead of fixing it or asking for the right things they keep sending me the same paperwork over and over again.

It is frustrating at best, but I'm naturally handling this calmly...

Or not. I can't even look at their logo without being pissed off now.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

That would have no deterrent effect if companies only had to pay back what they owe. It just encourages risky bad behavior because your potential losses are predictable and fixed. Btw, I'm against most civil asset forfeiture too but this is completely different.

Compensation should be to those actually harmed

Lock a few people up or hold individuals personally responsible and it will have a profound effect wrt deterrence

This MUST not be allowed to turn into another way for gov to fill its coffers

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Compensation should be to those actually harmed

Lock a few people up or hold individuals personally responsible and it will have a profound effect wrt deterrence

This MUST not be allowed to turn into another way for gov to fill its coffers

This is so diffuse that it's not applicable. Nobody did anything that was a felony as the dollar abouts were incredibly small. $25 here, $20 there. Second, this wasn't corporate policy but it was tolerated at lower levels such as branch manager etc. Third, everyone who lost money is getting reimburst. This is the compensation. Noone died because they lost $25 or had a credit card opened in their name. And finally forth, because of 1, 2, and 3, the government slapped $185mm fine on them. I'd anyone was hurt or damagedby this, it's wells fargo the company, and the 5,300 people fired who now no longer have jobs.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

This is so diffuse that it's not applicable. Nobody did anything that was a felony as the dollar abouts were incredibly small. $25 here, $20 there. Second, this wasn't corporate policy but it was tolerated at lower levels such as branch manager etc. Third, everyone who lost money is getting reimburst. This is the compensation. Noone died because they lost $25 or had a credit card opened in their name. And finally forth, because of 1, 2, and 3, the government slapped $185mm fine on them. I'd anyone was hurt or damagedby this, it's wells fargo the company, and the 5,300 people fired who now no longer have jobs.

Let me get this straight

A whole raft of employees enguaged in identity theft, actual theft of funds and fraud and you're argueing that they should NOT be subject to jail time?

All the while the company didnt tell these employees to do the above but didnt take extraordinary steps to remind their employees NOT to break the law and somehow the company should pay fines for the ACTUAL crimes of employees?

Sure sound to me like the criminal code/legal system is being stood on its head

[Fundguy1]

Dollar figures and actual injury are what the law prosecutes. No individual was harmed excessively or lost anything more than lunch for 4 at mcdonalds. Those losses are being repaid so even those don't count. As for didn't go out of its way to stop it, I'm sure 100% there were and always have been strict rules about not doing this stuff. So the bank policy is sound. The perpetrators who probably profited a few hundred bucks , which are the little guys in the bank, lost their jobs. The mid level people like the branch managers who looked the other way lost their jobs. The higher ups who didn't do anything wrong except they didn't go to extreme measures to monitor people several layers below them didn't do anything wrong. Who do you want to jail? Where's the jailable person? Give me an example?

[Fundguy1]

You even said they didn't take extraordinarily steps. Extraordinary steps means going way out of your way over something instead of following standard protocol which clearly covers this. You can't expect anyone to take extraordinary steps for everything. That's what you're asking. There was protocols in place with threat of termination if not followed already. What else would you have done?

[Fundguy1]

I've worked in the financial industry for over 20 yrs. If a policy isn't followed your fired. You hire people who pass a background check so that you aren't hiring crooks. You implement policies that they're required to follow that are within the laws and regulations. The laws and regulations on the financial industry are the heaviest of any industry, including medical. If people still don't do what they are directed to, then typically they're fired and their supervisor who may or may not have known it was happening is fired also. That's what happened here. So what else do you expect them to do?

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Dollar figures and actual injury are what the law prosecutes. No individual was harmed excessively or lost anything more than lunch for 4 at mcdonalds. Those losses are being repaid so even those don't count. As for didn't go out of its way to stop it, I'm sure 100% there were and always have been strict rules about not doing this stuff. So the bank policy is sound. The perpetrators who probably profited a few hundred bucks , which are the little guys in the bank, lost their jobs. The mid level people like the branch managers who looked the other way lost their jobs. The higher ups who didn't do anything wrong except they didn't go to extreme measures to monitor people several layers below them didn't do anything wrong. Who do you want to jail? Where's the jailable person? Give me an example?

What the company does (firing) has no bearing on what the law calls for.

Theft is theft

What SHOULD happen is for the state to prosecute these thieves so they have a permanent record that follows them....play stupid games....win stupid prizes

Lets look at petty theft laws just in the state of Mass

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...alties-defense

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jpnh

What the company does (firing) has no bearing on what the law calls for.

Theft is theft

What SHOULD happen is for the state to prosecute these thieves so they have a permanent record that follows them....play stupid games....win stupid prizes

Lets look at petty theft laws just in the state of Mass

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...alties-defense

Ok, so you put 5,000 private bankers in court. Charge each with a misdemeanor, they pay the $500 they profitted back, which is already being paid by the bank o they pay zero, maybe a small fine which added up doesn't equal $185mm, they have a misdemeanor on their record which is the same as a traffic ticket, and we pay for the time it takes the courts to prosecute 5,000 people, and the bank doesn't pay the fine of $185mm because it's no longer liable. Makes sense.

[Fundguy1]

March one person who's been hurt by this to the point where individually they should sue for a large amount of money. Can't do it. Nobody lost more than the cost of 4 happy meals. March one person into court who personally broke the law and profitted by this personally by a large sum of money. Can't do that either. Who do you want to jail? Why? Appropriate punishment is reinburst anyone who lost and give the bank as a whole a giant fine and fire those who brose the law even when they each made literally pennies from doing this. Done. What else makes sense?

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Ok, so you put 5,000 private bankers in court. Charge each with a misdemeanor, they pay the $500 they profitted back, which is already being paid by the bank o they pay zero, maybe a small fine which added up doesn't equal $185mm, they have a misdemeanor on their record which is the same as a traffic ticket, and we pay for the time it takes the courts to prosecute 5,000 people, and the bank doesn't pay the fine of $185mm because it's no longer liable. Makes sense.

The convicted criminals should pay court costs

Again....play stupid games....win stupid prizes

Until indiiduals are held personally accountable in a court of law this BS will continue