BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Did anybody test 0-100?
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      12-29-2014, 02:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
Obd data is not gps data. Hence its not correct. You can add a few tenths to your obd time for real 100kph gps speed
Not necessarily. It is the car's best guess at the actual speed, and must not be confused with what it presents on the speedometer. And unlike GPS data, it is not lagging behind.
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      12-29-2014, 02:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Not necessarily. It is the car's best guess at the actual speed, and must not be confused with what it presents on the speedometer. And unlike GPS data, it is not lagging behind.
When i compared my cars obd speed with the performance box speed it was off. Thats my own experience comparing a cheap wifi obd reader with an expensive gps logger. 0-200 kph obd reader gave over 1 second faster
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      12-29-2014, 02:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
When i compared my cars obd speed with the performance box speed it was off. Thats my own experience comparing a cheap wifi obd reader with an expensive gps logger. 0-200 kph obd reader gave over 1 second faster
It pretty much only depends on tyre diameter. If you select lower tyres than the original size, or if you wear them well down, the car will guess the speed is higher than it really is. If you have oversize tyres, it will guess too low.

When I tested 0-100 with OBD speed data, I compared to the GPS speed from the phone I used, and they agreed about the speed.
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      12-29-2014, 02:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
It pretty much only depends on tyre diameter. If you select lower tyres than the original size, or if you wear them well down, the car will guess the speed is higher than it really is. If you have oversize tyres, it will guess too low.

When I tested 0-100 with OBD speed data, I compared to the GPS speed from the phone I used, and they agreed about the speed.
Well i use the same stock tyres. And a 1 hz gps device is not quite as accurate as a 10 hz gps logger. Especially not in acceleration tests. Your phone gps will only refresh 1 time per second while the gps logger will do so 10 times per second.

But if you are happy with it good for you i started with obd reader then bought xgps pro and used that with racechrono and ended up with a racelogic performance box anyways. Its very reliable if you want accurate data.
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      12-29-2014, 02:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
Well i use the same stock tyres. And a 1 hz gps device is not quite as accurate as a 10 hz gps logger. Especially not in acceleration tests. Your phone gps will only refresh 1 time per second while the gps logger will do so 10 times per second.

But if you are happy with it good for you i started with obd reader then bought xgps pro and used that with racechrono and ended up with a racelogic performance box anyways. Its very reliable if you want accurate data.
I did not use the phone to measure acceleration with GPS, just the speed, to check calibration for the OBD speed signal. I used racechrono with OBD speed for the acceleration test. I agree that the 1 Hz GPS in the phone is not suitable for the purpose of measuring 0-100. It is however possible to get a very accurate 0-100 reading with a dedicated GPS logger with a 1 Hz GPS antenna when everything is calibrated together with a dynamic model. I have been part of developing such a unit myself, and we came very close to 1/8 mile strip results with optical sensors. Often closer than the Performance Box.

Remember that the 10 Hz GPS antennas also use quite a lot of filtering and interpolation to bring you the signal. There is far from 10 times more information in the data from such a unit compared to a 1 Hz antenna.
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      12-29-2014, 02:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
Well i use the same stock tyres. And a 1 hz gps device is not quite as accurate as a 10 hz gps logger. Especially not in acceleration tests. Your phone gps will only refresh 1 time per second while the gps logger will do so 10 times per second.

But if you are happy with it good for you i started with obd reader then bought xgps pro and used that with racechrono and ended up with a racelogic performance box anyways. Its very reliable if you want accurate data.
I did nok use the phone to measure acceleration with GPS, just the speed, to check calibration for the OBD speed signal. I used racechrono with OBD speed for the acceleration test. I agree that the 1 Hz GPS in the phone is not suitable for the purpose of measuring 0-100. It is however possible to get a very accurate 0-100 reading with a dedicated GPS logger with a 1 Hz GPS antenna when everything is calibrated together with a dynamic model. I have been part of developing such a unit myself, and we came very close to 1/8 mile strip results with optical sensors. Often closer than the Performance Box.

Remember that the 10 Hz GPS antennas also use quite a lot of filtering and interpolation to bring you the signal. There is far from 10 times more information in the data from such a unit compared to a 1 Hz antenna.
Yet the racelogic performance box is a device that is accepted globally as displaying correct info. And I happily use it. Unfortunately we have no 1/8th or 1/4th mile strips in Belgium. So the pbox is very convenient as well.
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      12-29-2014, 04:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
Yet the racelogic performance box is a device that is accepted globally as displaying correct info. And I happily use it. Unfortunately we have no 1/8th or 1/4th mile strips in Belgium. So the pbox is very convenient as well.
Yes, that is a very nice product. At least at the time it originally came out.
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      12-29-2014, 07:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam
I will post the results. I did the timing by recording a sound file. I make a sound to mark the start, and use my computer to figure out what the RPM is based on sound frequency. Since I know the gear ratios, I can tell exactly when I hit 100 in the sound file. I'd say it is accurate to within +- 1/10 second.
Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting to try, but I don't quite understand how you use this method.
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      12-30-2014, 01:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting to try, but I don't quite understand how you use this method.
It is mostly for engineers, but I can describe briefly the steps involved:

1. Record a sound file inboard the car of the acceleration, making a sharp sound when you drop the clutch, such as a short shout. Use this sound to crop the file to start at the 0.0 point.

2. Use Fourier transformation on the sound file to extract the frequencies.

3. Use pattern recognition to find the engine frequency. It is usually quite dominating and continous through the file.

4. Using the number of cylinders and the fact that it is a four stroke engine to compute the RPM from the frequency.

5. Use the dynamic tyre diameter and gear ratios to compute the RPM into speed.

6. Find the point in the file where the speed exceeds 100 km/h.

I used home made software for the entire process.
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      12-30-2014, 04:17 AM   #32
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My best time is 4,8 with a (near) perfect start in 2nd gear (automatic box). Logged with the Torque App using the OBD2 dongle. I shifted manually @ ~6500rpm.
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      12-30-2014, 05:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting to try, but I don't quite understand how you use this method.
It is mostly for engineers, but I can describe briefly the steps involved:

1. Record a sound file inboard the car of the acceleration, making a sharp sound when you drop the clutch, such as a short shout. Use this sound to crop the file to start at the 0.0 point.

2. Use Fourier transformation on the sound file to extract the frequencies.

3. Use pattern recognition to find the engine frequency. It is usually quite dominating and continous through the file.

4. Using the number of cylinders and the fact that it is a four stroke engine to compute the RPM from the frequency.

5. Use the dynamic tyre diameter and gear ratios to compute the RPM into speed.

6. Find the point in the file where the speed exceeds 100 km/h.

I used home made software for the entire process.
Sheesh that's impressive!! I'll stick with using a stopwatch lol
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      12-30-2014, 05:40 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
It is mostly for engineers, but I can describe briefly the steps involved:

1. Record a sound file inboard the car of the acceleration, making a sharp sound when you drop the clutch, such as a short shout. Use this sound to crop the file to start at the 0.0 point.

2. Use Fourier transformation on the sound file to extract the frequencies.

3. Use pattern recognition to find the engine frequency. It is usually quite dominating and continous through the file.

4. Using the number of cylinders and the fact that it is a four stroke engine to compute the RPM from the frequency.

5. Use the dynamic tyre diameter and gear ratios to compute the RPM into speed.

6. Find the point in the file where the speed exceeds 100 km/h.

I used home made software for the entire process.
I'm an engineer, and I don't have much confidence that I could achieve all of that without getting something fundamentally wrong along the way.

I'm guessing you are trying to produce an app, that could be used like the M-Power App, or would it require extra hardware?

How does it compare with other measurement methods?

Is this something you are doing to make money, or just as a hobby?
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      12-30-2014, 08:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMech View Post
I'm an engineer, and I don't have much confidence that I could achieve all of that without getting something fundamentally wrong along the way.

I'm guessing you are trying to produce an app, that could be used like the M-Power App, or would it require extra hardware?

How does it compare with other measurement methods?

Is this something you are doing to make money, or just as a hobby?
I made it years ago (as in the previous Millennium) when free GPS apps were not easily available. Back in those days, the alternative was usually a stop watch or some flaky g-sensor equipment that was very sensitive to squatting during acceleration. It is just hobby stuff, not meant to be used by others, and the user interface is made accordingly.

Now that you mention it, it would be possible to make this as a mobile phone app with no further hardware.

Some years later, a friend and I made some GPS based data loggers. He sold some of them, but it was mostly a hobby project. During the testing, we compared different methods (including Racelogic equipment and sound recordings), and you can get pretty accurate readings with all if you know what you are doing. I would say down to maximum +-0.1 second error.
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      12-30-2014, 12:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhold View Post
Well i use the same stock tyres. And a 1 hz gps device is not quite as accurate as a 10 hz gps logger. Especially not in acceleration tests. Your phone gps will only refresh 1 time per second while the gps logger will do so 10 times per second.

But if you are happy with it good for you i started with obd reader then bought xgps pro and used that with racechrono and ended up with a racelogic performance box anyways. Its very reliable if you want accurate data.
I would imagine that the greatest chance for error when using the wifi obd reader in combination with mobile phone app is the car's tachometer. I don't know how accurate this should be, however I would like to think that a car that has only done 2500 miles would be reasonably accurate. I would not expect the rate at which the obd is scanning and transmitting the data, to the phone to impact upon the accuracy (this is probably done in milli or micro seconds).

Unfortunately I don't have any way to accurately check my tachometer, so I will have to take the obd data on face value, but I would say that errors can go either way i.e. both plus and minus.
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      02-18-2015, 06:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The 116i is supposed to do 0-100 km/h in 8.5 seconds according to the specifications from BMW, which is a rather good figure with only 136 hp for such a heavy car.

I did a test run yesterday, and ended up with 8.9 seconds. I guess both the start and the gearing could have been better, so 8.5 seconds should be possible with a good run.

Anybody else done any testing?
I plan to do a dyno run on Thursday to see how much power there is.
Hi Ove,

I got my 116i remapped, because never driven a fast car an really wanted to see what it is like. Here is the OBD data 0-60 mph. As you can see, it has dropped from 7.9s to 5.9s. I'll post the dyno also.

sec;mph;miles;rpm
#10 mph 1.00s in 2yd (2863tr/min)
#20 mph 1.80s in 8yd (4792tr/min)
#30 mph 2.45s in 17yd (5520tr/min)
#40 mph 3.30s in 31yd (5379tr/min)
#50 mph 4.55s in 59yd (4499tr/min)
#60 mph 5.85s in 94yd (5372tr/min)
0.00;0;0.000;1420
0.20;1;0.000;1818
0.35;3;0.000;2085
0.55;5;0.000;2327
0.75;8;0.001;2541
1.00;10;0.001;2863
1.20;13;0.002;3303
1.40;15;0.003;3924
1.60;19;0.004;4293
1.80;22;0.005;4792
2.05;24;0.006;5317
2.25;29;0.008;6022
2.45;31;0.010;5520
2.70;33;0.012;4975
2.90;36;0.014;4859
3.10;37;0.016;5163
3.30;40;0.018;5379
3.50;42;0.020;5682
3.70;44;0.023;5799
3.95;45;0.026;5680
4.15;47;0.028;5046
4.35;48;0.031;4455
4.55;50;0.034;4499
4.75;51;0.036;4649
4.95;53;0.039;4772
5.20;54;0.043;4861
5.45;55;0.047;5021
5.65;59;0.050;5265
5.85;60;0.053;5372
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      02-18-2015, 06:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Or you could look at the real world curves from my dyno graph! :-)

Hi Ove,

Here is the dyno before an after, with the wheels still on the car (not bolted directly). Note that there is a conversion factor showing 155 whp before and 211 whp after.

Note also how flat the original power curve was i.e. restricted.
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      02-18-2015, 06:25 AM   #39
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But how could your car have 155 whp before the tuning? That does not sound right. With 136 hp specified on the flywheel, the wheel power should be something like 113 whp.
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      02-18-2015, 06:34 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But how could your car have 155 whp before the tuning? That does not sound right. With 136 hp specified on the flywheel, the wheel power should be something like 113 whp.
i guess his mean not whp should be hp
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      02-18-2015, 06:49 AM   #41
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Quote:
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i guess his mean not whp should be hp
That makes sense. After all, my car had 139 hp at the rear hubs, which should indicate around 150 hp at the flywheel.
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      02-18-2015, 10:55 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
That makes sense. After all, my car had 139 hp at the rear hubs, which should indicate around 150 hp at the flywheel.
mine had 141 at wheels so it means about 154 hp a the flyweel.
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      02-18-2015, 01:51 PM   #43
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mine had 141 at wheels so it means about 154 hp a the flyweel.
Yes I'm assuming that mine was approx 140 hp at the wheels.
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      02-18-2015, 05:23 PM   #44
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RMech
I have matched my tacho against both my phone gps and my blackbox gps. The tacho show 1kmh less very consistently.
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