[burnrbr]

True car enthusiasts can see that a car is not for them yet appreciate what it is. Most struggle with this. The 350R is impressive, but not for me. It does raise the bar in a few significant areas that overlap with the M space. Competition at any level improves the product.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Let's get back on track here ... the 350 is a major step up for Ford! It is great they built it. However, it is a niche vehicle and we still need to get more reviews. It is a large heavy vehicle and that can't be hidden no matter what. Hell I think M2 is heavy for its size.

M2 is definitely too heavy for it's size. Thinking about how an STI weighs significantly less with an AWD system. The Focus RS will probably be lighter too. You'd think being more expensive and all, BMW could find more ways to cut the weight.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

I would, the C6 interior is complete sh*t box. It is a good performance value for people than need to shop the second hand market.

I don't know too much about the C6 interior, but I do know about various european interiors (BMW, Merc) from 2005-present and I can say that most people have no idea what they are talking about here. Unless you are spending upwards of 80K on a crazy optioned 5 series or higher, there's little interior difference, in fact, some of the american auto makers have distinctly better interiors. There seems to be some kind of perception that european interiors are hacked out of solid aluminum and laser cut diamonds, with no plastic or other poor features. I'm not sure where this perception comes from, as a quick tour on any of your cars will most likely show multiple plastic panels and features. Maybe this stems from 30-40 years ago when the US cars were vinal bench seats with other ridiculous features, but these days I don't see a difference between a moderately equipped US car and the same YURP car, I do see a difference in price, but "better interior" is blown away out of proportion these days IMO. People are way-overrating their interiors.

Or to put it another way, go option out a Panamera interior with all the cool stuff that can go into it. THAT is a hands down better interior, and you'll be paying 150K for the car.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by burnrbr

True car enthusiasts can see that a car is not for them yet appreciate what it is. Most struggle with this. The 350R is impressive, but not for me. It does raise the bar in a few significant areas that overlap with the M space. Competition at any level improves the product.

Agree 100%

If you take a second and really think about the cars these journalists had for testing. These guys drive and review cars for a living. Whether you value their opinion or not, they are very experienced at what they do. The fact they chose the GT350R over this competition says something. This car must be no joke. It must be an absolute thrill to drive and truly an involving experience not many new cars provide today.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by burnrbr

True car enthusiasts can see that a car is not for them yet appreciate what it is. Most struggle with this. The 350R is impressive, but not for me. It does raise the bar in a few significant areas that overlap with the M space. Competition at any level improves the product.

So if someone doesn't automatically drink the kool aid based soley on 1 track review by 1 magazine, they aren't true car enthusiast?

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Agree 100%

If you take a second and really think about the cars these journalists had for testing. These guys drive and review cars for a living. Whether you value their opinion or not, they are very experienced at what they do. The fact they chose the GT350R over this competition says something. This car must be no joke. It must be an absolute thrill to drive and truly an involving experience not many new cars provide today.

What if other magazines and reviewers come to a different conclusion? Are you on the road and track payroll?

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

What if other magazines and reviewers come to a different conclusion?

You name it...Motor Trend, C&D, R&T are all praising this car. If you find a negative review let me know, because so far everyone loves this car. It seems to be an enthusiast's dream.

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

Are you on the road and track payroll?

Where are you getting at with this comment? I am guessing it is pure sarcasm, at least I hope it isn't serious.

Just stating whether you like R&T or not, they picked this car over some serious competition. It has to be one hell of package to do so.

[FogCityM3]

Just went to the Ford dealership today. They had a Mustang 5.0 with the highest optioned interior. I was really surprised, it looked and felt great and felt more "solid" than the 3 series interiors which sound hollow and are covered with cheap/thin plastics. I was even impressed with the feel of the shifter. If these interiors hold up over time, the gap has closed a lot with little/no differentiation in the look/feel...I'd say this example was better than a 335i.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I don't know too much about the C6 interior, but I do know about various european interiors (BMW, Merc) from 2005-present and I can say that most people have no idea what they are talking about here. Unless you are spending upwards of 80K on a crazy optioned 5 series or higher, there's little interior difference, in fact, some of the american auto makers have distinctly better interiors. There seems to be some kind of perception that european interiors are hacked out of solid aluminum and laser cut diamonds, with no plastic or other poor features. I'm not sure where this perception comes from, as a quick tour on any of your cars will most likely show multiple plastic panels and features. Maybe this stems from 30-40 years ago when the US cars were vinal bench seats with other ridiculous features, but these days I don't see a difference between a moderately equipped US car and the same YURP car, I do see a difference in price, but "better interior" is blown away out of proportion these days IMO. People are way-overrating their interiors.

Or to put it another way, go option out a Panamera interior with all the cool stuff that can go into it. THAT is a hands down better interior, and you'll be paying 150K for the car.

[FogCityM3]

Totally agree..the praise is universal. Look at Randy Pobst video of him driving it....it looks and sounds like so much fun, you can tell he is having a blast and is doing nothing but praising it. Considering his credentials, I'd weigh that far more than 95% of the amateur opinions on here, many of which are based on very limited fun-driving or track experience in numerous vehicles.

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You name it...Motor Trend, C&D, R&T are all praising this car. If you find a negative review let me know, because so far everyone loves this car. It seems to be an enthusiast's dream.

Where are you getting at with this comment? I am guessing it is pure sarcasm, at least I hope it isn't serious.

Just stating whether you like R&T or not, they picked this car over some serious competition. It has to be one hell of package to do so.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

You name it...Motor Trend, C&D, R&T are all praising this car. If you find a negative review let me know, because so far everyone loves this car. It seems to be an enthusiast's dream.

Where are you getting at with this comment? I am guessing it is pure sarcasm, at least I hope it isn't serious.

Just stating whether you like R&T or not, they picked this car over some serious competition. It has to be one hell of package to do so.

Do you mean the car and driver review that called the steering dull and had "confidence-sapping numbness?" Again I'm not saying it's not a great car -- I just don't have enough information yet.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Totally agree..the praise is universal. Look at Randy Pobst video of him driving it....it looks and sounds like so much fun, you can tell he is having a blast and is doing nothing but praising it. Considering his credentials, I'd weigh that far more than 95% of the amateur opinions on here, many of which are based on very limited fun-driving or track experience in numerous vehicles.

He was being paid by Ford Performance to "review" the car. I give more weight to the 95% of opinions that weren't paid for.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

Do you mean the car and driver review that called the steering dull and had "confidence-sapping numbness?" Again I'm not saying it's not a great car -- I just don't have enough information yet.

Yes I mean that Car & Driver review. Which is overwhelming positive. They regurgitate the typical electric steering hate from all the modern car reviews(like with the M4). As with most reviews these days, they have to find something negative for the article. But by and large, that article is full of praise.

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

He was being paid by Ford Performance to "review" the car.

So Randy got paid for his review. Road & Track is just one review and only kool aid drinkers believe it. Car and Drivers overly positive review is null and void because it includes the basic electric steering hate.

So I am guessing you also think Jason Cammisa Ignition episode where he said Ford "nailed it" was also bought and paid for. What about Motor Trends first drive article, paid for also?

What about Edmunds test article, where they say this about steering, "Steering inputs are met with alarming response. You turn, it turns. There's no secondary motion." They also say this, "Unlike its most obvious competitor, the Chevy Camaro Z28, there's legitimate daily-use ability built into this Shelby."..."Truth is, for us, this is the first Mustang good enough to utterly override the stigma that comes with the name." Edmunds article is a giant circle jerk.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

I give more weight to the 95% of opinions that weren't paid for.

May I ask who's opinion you are waiting for then.

You know Chris Harris is going to bust a nut about this car.

[Magor]

I always trust only professionals

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

M2 is definitely too heavy for it's size. Thinking about how an STI weighs significantly less with an AWD system. The Focus RS will probably be lighter too. You'd think being more expensive and all, BMW could find more ways to cut the weight.

STI's are 3,386 in the most basic form. An M235i is 3,533 with a lot more standard content and the Focus RS is rumored to be right around 3,500 pounds. I have a hatred of extra weight and have ruled out all three cars, but am secretly hoping the RS comes in lighter than expected, but of course a Focus ST is around 3,250 pounds, so bigger brakes, heavier motor, awd system and a few other changes aren't going to help. Most modern cars are porky.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

STI's are 3,386 in the most basic form. An M235i is 3,533 with a lot more standard content and the Focus RS is rumored to be right around 3,500 pounds. I have a hatred of extra weight and have ruled out all three cars, but am secretly hoping the RS comes in lighter than expected, but of course a Focus ST is around 3,250 pounds, so bigger brakes, heavier motor, awd system and a few other changes aren't going to help. Most modern cars are porky.

Your only real bet for what you're looking to achieve is a Lotus. My Exige was 2,000lbs but it had bare metal interior, no navigation with a two speaker stereo, fixed seats, a tiny 4 cyl engine, mediocre climate control, no trunk space, and was constructed entirely from aluminum and fiberglass. That's sacrificing a massive amount to get to something lightweight and it was not even close to livable as a daily driver.

Sure, these other cars weigh more but you also get a huge bump in livability and practicality. The other option is to build more components from carbon fiber but even then, the most obvious weight savings will come from your wallet. A $50,000 STI or Focus RS? No thanks. Both are a tough sell in the mid-30s and are already pretty spartan in production form.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Your only real bet for what you're looking to achieve is a Lotus. My Exige was 2,000lbs but it had bare metal interior, no navigation with a two speaker stereo, fixed seats, a tiny 4 cyl engine, mediocre climate control, no trunk space, and was constructed entirely from aluminum and fiberglass. That's sacrificing a massive amount to get to something lightweight and it was not even close to livable as a daily driver.

Sure, these other cars weigh more but you also get a huge bump in livability and practicality. The other option is to build more components from carbon fiber but even then, the most obvious weight savings will come from your wallet. A $50,000 STI or Focus RS? No thanks. Both are a tough sell in the mid-30s and are already pretty spartan in production form.

Oh, agreed. I just miss the days of a 3,050 pound M Coupe and a 3,150 pound E46 M3. Our 135i was heavy at 3,300 pounds, not sure why the 235i needed to gain a few hundred pounds. I suppose the G series and carbon will help them get back to lighter weights.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

M2 is definitely too heavy for it's size. Thinking about how an STI weighs significantly less with an AWD system. The Focus RS will probably be lighter too. You'd think being more expensive and all, BMW could find more ways to cut the weight.

They sure know where the weight is hiding but they did not want to develop a light M car just an entry M. The M3 sales can't be jeopardized. Why not have options for cloth interior and cf roof is mind boggling. I think Marketing got involved. One of my friends drove S3 and said it was a lot if fun. The weight surprised me. Maybe RS3 will be lighter as well.

[Northern X5M]

Bit surprised even with SC2's the 60 foot is in the 2.1XXs. I think with more seat time the 60's will drop in to the 1.8s. Then you will see 11's in the 1/4 mile. Impressive car, other than a few cars built prior to 1971 I think this is the first Ford I would seriously buy!

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Your only real bet for what you're looking to achieve is a Lotus. My Exige was 2,000lbs but it had bare metal interior, no navigation with a two speaker stereo, fixed seats, a tiny 4 cyl engine, mediocre climate control, no trunk space, and was constructed entirely from aluminum and fiberglass. That's sacrificing a massive amount to get to something lightweight and it was not even close to livable as a daily driver.

Sure, these other cars weigh more but you also get a huge bump in livability and practicality. The other option is to build more components from carbon fiber but even then, the most obvious weight savings will come from your wallet. A $50,000 STI or Focus RS? No thanks. Both are a tough sell in the mid-30s and are already pretty spartan in production form.

My buddy daily drove his Exige no problem. If you need to haul shit or live where it snows, not a daily driver, but to say it can't be anywhere is wrong.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by BoostedRide

My buddy daily drove his Exige no problem. If you need to haul shit or live where it snows, not a daily driver, but to say it can't be anywhere is wrong.

I didn't say it can't be a daily driver. Sure, it's *possible* to daily drive an Exige, but the same can be said for a Vespa or a unicycle. I think you understood my point.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I didn't say it can't be a daily driver. Sure, it's *possible* to daily drive an Exige, but the same can be said for a Vespa or a unicycle. I think you understood my point.

Totally agree. To daily an Exige would be a nightmare. I had an Elise for track duty and would take it for weekend canyon runs. Once you're behind the wheel it's great but noisy as hell (couldn't hear the stereo and forget about cell phone). However, getting in and out is murder on the body.