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      11-07-2017, 06:20 PM   #1
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Wheel and brake fitment help - APEX ARC-8 and M140i

Hi all!

First time poster, so please be nice haha :P tried to provide as much info for you as possible, so please forgive the wall of text.

I'm taking delivery of my M140i in January next year and have already got a nice little selection of upgrades in the works. Very excited!

I also want to fit wider tyres, bigger brakes and a better suspension system and have unfortunately fallen down the rabbit hole of choosing alloy wheels. Quite a learning curve!

Having settled on the APEX ARC-8 wheel, I could use some help determining the sizes I need for wheels and tyres to properly fit my M140i.

I'm sticking to 18" rather than going 19". I'd like to go wider front and rear for better grip and off-the-line traction, but from what I have gathered getting anything wider than a 235 section tyre on the front is a serious struggle so I'm not concerned with trying to go square set. I would consider a 245 section front tyre if possible, but I don't want to compromise steering lock (BMWs are hard enough to 3-point turn as it is lol).

The front is probably going to be an 8.5Jx18 ET 45 and 235/40 R18. I have been advised by APEX that I will need to run a 3mm or 5mm spacer to ensure it clears the strut.

The rear is more tricky, as I'm not sure if I want to go 265/35 R18 or be totally mental and try for 275/35 R18.

APEX offer both 9Jx18 ET 42 and 9.5Jx18 ET 58 wheels, and they say both with fit an M140i depending on what tyres you use and fitting correct spacers (again they mention 3mm or 5mm).

I am also wary of poking the wheels out beyond the guards (illegal in Australia, and I don't want to have to do anything to the bodywork or put a wide body kit on). Whatever setup I choose needs to work with the factory arches.

The final consideration is that I would like to fit a KW DDC Plug and Play suspension kit (with race springs and anti-roll bars) possibly with a slight lowering, and an AP Racing 6-pot/4-pot BBK. So the wheels would need to cope with those modifications too. Another layer of complexity.

Without having the car and all the different wheel sizes to actually fit and test with various tyres and spacers I am having trouble finding any concrete information. There are many conflicting suggestions through the forums so I am unsure what will actually fit, and as I will be having to import the wheels and necessary spacers, camber plates etc. myself I would hate for them to arrive only to find they don't fit!

I'm not hugely knowledgeable on the technical aspects of this stuff so a lot of the info I'm reading is going right over my head... Has anybody actually fitted a similar setup or similarly sized wheels to what I am looking at?

Any information or suggestions you can provide as to what wheel and tyre sizes I should go for, what spacers and plates may be needed for clearance and how they will go with rubbing, poking, etc. would be massively appreciated!

Thank you very much!
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      11-08-2017, 12:57 AM   #2
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I don't have the answer you want, but my initial thought is that this setup might not be an upgrade. I suspect you will be faster around a track with the stock setup, just replacing the brake pads and tyres for something made for the purpose. Have you considered the performance suspension, the performance differential or the performance brakes? Or perhaps the M4 front control arms?
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      11-08-2017, 05:07 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply mate!

I've already got the brake pads slated for upgrade until I can afford to do a full brake kit. My understanding was that the M Performance brake kit was equivalent to the M brakes fitted standard on the M140i so wouldn't be worth doing. I was aiming for an AP Racing big brake kit later on.

Also already doing the differential with a Quaife LSD rather than the M Performance unit, so check again!

Suspension I don't want to lose my adjustable damping modes so I will be going with a KW DDC kit, again later on once the budget has recovered.

While tyres alone are always a good option, the factory Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't exactly bad. I've heard a lot about the car struggling to put its power down being RWD only, and rarely coming close to its stated 0-100km/h figures hence why I would like some extra rubber for off the line traction.

I appreciate the thoughts though! Perhaps someone who has already changed wheels and tyres could give some input too
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      11-08-2017, 05:20 AM   #4
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The M brakes are not the same as the Performance brakes, even if they look rather similar.
Quaife LSD is good choice, and will help you put the power down.
I agree that the Super Sport tyres are good, but for track driving in dry conditions, Sport Cup 2 will be faster.

I think I would have stuck with the stock tyre size, and try to find some lightweight wheels to improve performance. But I guess looks is also a factor?
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      11-08-2017, 08:03 AM   #5
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I'd also tend to experiment with tyres before going too far down the tyres-and-wheels route. I'd suggest with the quaife, understeer may be more an issue, hence one size wider or even a square set-up at the front might be helpful. As would Sports Cup 2s all round. It depends how much and how frequently you wish to spend your money. Is the car more a daily drive or weekend track car?

Likewise with brakes, I'd tend to see how the stock ones work for the use case, then try different pads (+fluid) and possibly rotors before changing the configuration. But then I'm a tight-ass who likes a stock look
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      11-08-2017, 08:18 AM   #6
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The added negative camber from M4 front control arms will dial out some understeer and make the tire wear up front more even. Camber plates can of course also be used for the purpose.

With the Quaife installed, it is possible to run a stiffer rear swaybar, which will also improve the turn in. Maybe not a good idea if the car is used for drag racing.
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      11-09-2017, 01:50 AM   #7
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Oh okay didn't realise M Performance brakes were any different, though having done a quick search they seem to still be 4-pot/2-pot Brembos just with different coloured calipers and different rotors?

I assume there would be some other differences but if I'm going to upgrade I don't see much point in going from 4/2 M Sport Brembos to another set of 4/2 Brembos with the M Performance. I'd want to step up to 6/4.

Looks are definitely a factor in wheels too! I'd love a set of BMW 359Ms but I don't think I could get them to fit the car. And they'd be far too pricey haha! The APEX ARC-8 is well reviewed and looks very similar, while also being somewhat lighter than 359Ms. The factory alloys are fine as well, much better on the LCI2 than the LCI, though not totally to my taste.

The car will be my daily driver, but I also plan to track it as regularly as the budget allows. I've had the idea of a square set recommended to me before, but I'm pretty set on wanting a wider rear set than stock so getting the car to a square set even on 255s (up from 245 rear) might be too limiting to steering lock on the front and I don't want to compromise that. A staggered set seems like the best option for what I am hoping to achieve.

APEX wheels customer service have recommended not going wider than 235 (up from 225) at the front so that would hopefully help the understeer somewhat. When I do the suspension I'll be doing anti-sway bars too so that will help too. Will investigate the M4 control arms as well. Not planning on drag racing, just want the wider tyres to put the power down better.

I won't be doing the wheels/tyres/brakes/suspension for a while anyhow so I will see how it all goes stock before committing to any further upgrades than I have already ordered.

Totally understand where you're coming from with liking the stock look too! I guess I just like to be a bit more unique (just like everybody else, eh! Haha!) and make the car my own. I'm sure the stock brakes would be entirely adequate for what I plan to use the car for, but why be adequate when you can be excessive? :P
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      11-09-2017, 01:55 AM   #8
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Getting back to my original question regarding which APEX wheels will actually fit my car, though, do you guys have any thoughts on the sizes I mentioned and what plates and spacers may be needed to fit them correctly?

Setting aside thoughts of leaving the car stock and other possible options for a moment (though I'm loving your extra input, good food for thought!).

Assuming I wanted to fit an 8.5Jx18 ET 45 and 235/40 R18 to the front and a 9.5Jx18 ET 58 with, say, the 265/35 R18 on the rear, I would greatly appreciate some input on required spacers and camber plates to successfully fit the wheels (APEX suggest 5mm but I'm not sure if that's enough for clearance of the struts?). Also whether the wheels will remain within the guards or start to poke out, which raises legal issues on Aussie roads.

Thanks!
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      11-09-2017, 02:43 AM   #9
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The thing is that the strut clearance will change when you install the KW struts, and the width of two diffferent tyre models with the same size printed on the sidewalls, can have significantly different width. This makes it very difficult to say if it will fit or not, as you are pushing the margins a bit here.

The stock setup of the car leaves some room to the wheel arches, so unless you need to increase the track width, I don't think your new tyre sizes will raise legal issues. I think it all comes down to the spacers.

Another issue is if 5 mm spacers will be hubcentric. Very thin spacers are fine, as the wheels will still be centered on the hub. Going thicker means the wheel will not be centered on the hub of the car, and needs a centering lip on the spacer itself. This is not possible to make unless the spacer is rather thick. I suspect you could end up in the non centering range in between.

Maybe the best way would be to buy the wheels/tyres first, and find some local supplier for spacers, where you can test different sizes for fitment.
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      11-09-2017, 08:01 AM   #10
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...and that's when you'll run into the issue all of us in Australia confront: finding a stockist who actually has stock, and then getting a test fit before you buy
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      11-09-2017, 08:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
...and that's when you'll run into the issue all of us in Australia confront: finding a stockist who actually has stock, and then getting a test fit before you buy
But some generic spacers in 5x120 bolt pattern should not be too hard to source, I guess? Many tyre shops have them here in Norway, in addition to lots of stores selling car parts. It doesn't have to be some BMW tuning company.
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      11-09-2017, 03:14 PM   #12
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Thanks again for your suggestions and input guys, very helpful and I'm learning a lot

I think what I'll do is wait until the car arrives and have my upgrade people measure the clearances for me while they're doing their works. Hopefully get a better feel for how much space I have to play with and give me an idea of what sizes to go for.

Will keep looking through other threads and see if I can find a few listed combinations that people have which work for some more info in the meantime as well!
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      11-09-2017, 04:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
...and that's when you'll run into the issue all of us in Australia confront: finding a stockist who actually has stock, and then getting a test fit before you buy
But some generic spacers in 5x120 bolt pattern should not be too hard to source, I guess? Many tyre shops have them here in Norway, in addition to lots of stores selling car parts. It doesn't have to be some BMW tuning company.
True....and one of the other issues we have in our "nanny state" regarding car modifications is that spacers are technically illegal unless they are an OEM fitment
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      11-09-2017, 11:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
True....and one of the other issues we have in our "nanny state" regarding car modifications is that spacers are technically illegal unless they are an OEM fitment
Oh joy, that's just great haha >.< one more thing to worry about!

A friend who's a lot more car-savvy than I am also told me that ADRs prohibit you from changing the width of the car's track by more than 25mm, so another legal technicality I have to watch out for.

I was hoping to keep the car 100% legal, as I expect it will be a bit of a cop magnet (relatively young driver, expensive car, loud exhaust, etc). For things like spacers and track width I don't expect your average beat cop would bother checking, and a few tyre places didn't seem to think it would be an issue either.

Bottom line, I drive like a grandma and always obey the road rules so hopefully they'll cut me some slack! XD
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      11-10-2017, 04:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ctorj3kyll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
True....and one of the other issues we have in our "nanny state" regarding car modifications is that spacers are technically illegal unless they are an OEM fitment
Oh joy, that's just great haha >.< one more thing to worry about!

A friend who's a lot more car-savvy than I am also told me that ADRs prohibit you from changing the width of the car's track by more than 25mm, so another legal technicality I have to watch out for.

I was hoping to keep the car 100% legal, as I expect it will be a bit of a cop magnet (relatively young driver, expensive car, loud exhaust, etc). For things like spacers and track width I don't expect your average beat cop would bother checking, and a few tyre places didn't seem to think it would be an issue either.

Bottom line, I drive like a grandma and always obey the road rules so hopefully they'll cut me some slack! XD
I reckon if they take a set against you, they'll defect your car for having bug splatters on your windscreen, or something equally trivial. Actually, it's not the police that are the issue so much as car insurance companies, who will inspect a car that's been involved in an accident very carefully.....sigh!
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      11-14-2017, 10:38 PM   #16
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Hi mate,

I changed my wheels to
Front: 18x8.5et35
Rear: 18x9.5et50
But only because I already had them, it was just lucky they worked well.

I reused the stock tyres so they are running a bit stretched at the moment, I'll probably go with 235/255 next.
In terms of fitment both front and rear only have millimetres of clearance on the inside so I wouldn’t go with what Apex recommended.

I have taken mine on track a couple of times and it’s performed well, but you will chew out the Michelin PSSs very quickly.

If you are going to the track regularly a square set up would be ideal, I think 18x8.5et40 with 245s all around would work.
These are one option http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Enkei-RPF...l/141770300886
Or these if you want to stick with Apex and don't mind going down to 17s https://www.apexraceparts.com/wheels...c-8-wheel.html (this would also rule out bigger brakes)
You may need a small (3-5mm) spacer and some camber on the front, which you will need anyway if you are going to track regularly.

This is how mine sits at full compression, you can see it's right at guard width without poking.


and when sitting normally



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      03-19-2018, 05:22 PM   #17
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Hi Guys,
I'm struggling with almost the same issue.
I'm also with an M140i, M-Performance diff and Ohlins coilovers on the way.
I'm interested in a more competitive tire setup, but my limitation is that the maximum tire width is 245. If i go with 255 i get bumped up in category (i compete in a local time attack), and i want to stay in the current category.

The problem i found, is that the original 245/35 rear tire size, doesn't have good tires available, the maximum i know of is the pss, i would like something like the pilot cup 2 which doesn't come in 245/35/18.
I also have a limitation on Tread wear (it has to be above 100, so r888r is not an option).
I think a square 245 setup would be good, but then i'll have to go with 245/40? Is that something that was tried and works well?
The other question is, what rim width and offset do i need?
From the answers here i'm not totally sure i need spacers or not, will front 8.5 et35 work with 245 width?

Any suggestions would be very appreciated.
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      03-20-2018, 02:50 AM   #18
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Sounds a lot like my car, M140i, LSD, Ohlins.
I assume you will be getting camber plates with the coilovers? As you will need camber to fit a 245 up front.

8.5"et35 fits well on the front, but will be very slightly out the guards on the rears.

Have you thought about 17" wheels?
These
https://www.apexraceparts.com/wheels...c-8-wheel.html
with 245/40/17 AD08R tyres (I think treadwear is 180) should be pretty competitive.

I test fit 17x9 Arc8s and they fit but you might have to take the vibration damper things off the brake pads.

And my car just because
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      03-20-2018, 07:18 AM   #19
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I wasn't planning on buying camber plates, but i did buy the front arms of the M2 which should add another -0.5 camber.

Another update (just got notified), the Ohlins that i have ordered are no longer produced
I ordered it from a local dealer here in Israel and he just told me there is a problem regarding them, buy this doesn't change the tires+rims topic.

I haven't thought about going down to 17', but that's a very interesting direction.
I wasn't sure they fit with our original brakes, i thought 18' was the mininum.

Regarding the front, i'm willing to go with 235 front, 245 rear, maybe on 17' there is a bigger variety of competitive wheels.
As i'm writing this, i'm more convinced it might be a great idea.

Will the 17x8.5" ET40 fit both front and rear well?
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      03-20-2018, 08:35 AM   #20
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17" rims fit over the M-Sport brakes, but not over the Performance brakes.
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      03-20-2018, 08:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenpeter View Post
I wasn't planning on buying camber plates, but i did buy the front arms of the M2 which should add another -0.5 camber.

Another update (just got notified), the Ohlins that i have ordered are no longer produced
I ordered it from a local dealer here in Israel and he just told me there is a problem regarding them, buy this doesn't change the tires+rims topic.

I haven't thought about going down to 17', but that's a very interesting direction.
I wasn't sure they fit with our original brakes, i thought 18' was the mininum.

Regarding the front, i'm willing to go with 235 front, 245 rear, maybe on 17' there is a bigger variety of competitive wheels.
As i'm writing this, i'm more convinced it might be a great idea.

Will the 17x8.5" ET40 fit both front and rear well?
They should fit all around, but I can't guarantee I'm just comparing to the wheel set ups I've had.

And like I said you will need to lose the vibration dampers off the brake pads to fit 17s.

Also I would recommend camber plates.
Talk to Harold at HP Autosport. That's where I got my Ohlins and Vorschlag camber plates.
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      03-21-2018, 04:34 AM   #22
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So i'm a little confused.
I have decided to stay with 18'.
Tire sizes:
Front, i'll either stay stock with 225/40/18 or 235/40/18
Rear (staying stock), 245/35/18

So will a square ec-7 8.5, et35 with the original tires fit?

Other options i thought about:
Front 8.5 et35, rear 8.5 et45
All et45, and adding front spacers?
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