[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

It breaks them enough to share a platform.

We'll see just how well the first ones do before you get to excited.

No, the opposite is true -- the project is not critical enough to either company to compel tackling it independently of each other. This has also been stated consistently by company executives throughout the development of both cars.

Yes, we shall see.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

1) We'll see what it is going to be called once it is publicly announced.

Certainly. I was merely informing you and others reading that your post should not be taken as fact as it is not even consistent with the most recent comments from BMW.

2) It is super obvious when threads have been recycled, retitled, or reborn numerous times.

Ok.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Certainly. I was merely informing you and others reading that your post should not be taken as fact as it is not even consistent with the most recent comments from BMW.

Ok.

Maybe consider the history of thread titles posted here saying "Z5" and even Scott26/27 posted similar things in the past.

Like there is truly a i4 in the works.

But I will be damned there is a sub forum for the i4.

The reason they'd call it the Z5 is for the same ridiculously reason BMW re-named the 3er Coupe the 4er. ///More money.

[ORIGIN M.]

Here is the current 1st Page

Even Bimmerpost has been calling it Z5.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Here is the current 1st Page

Even Bimmerpost has been calling it Z5.

"Had" been calling it the Z5.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Jason

"Had" been calling it the Z5.

Correct up until about 7 minutes ago.

[Huz-Z]

When it comes to the likely name of the car, I would tend to put more stock in what was said by BMW Americas head Ludwig Willisch, over speculation from folks outside BMW, even if they are knowledgeable car folks. But hey - what's in a name? And we'll know soon enough when the car is released to the public.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

When it comes to the likely name of the car, I would tend to put more stock in what was said by BMW Americas head Ludwig Willisch, over speculation from folks outside BMW, even if they are knowledgeable car folks. But hey - what's in a name? And we'll know soon enough when the car is released to the public.

There is money in a name.

My money is on Z5.

We'll see!

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

There is money in a name.

My money is on Z5.

We'll see!

I'll wager ya a cup of coffee!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Maybe consider the history of thread titles posted here saying "Z5" and even Scott26/27 posted similar things in the past.

Difficult to understand why you still think this should be debated. It was commonly referred to here and in the press as a Z5 earlier in the vehicle's development. Now, because of comments by a top BMW official, it is being referred to as the Z4. That's it. Let's move on.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Let's move on.

[supra93]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...l-pebble-beach

Future model will retain Z4 moniker instead of adopting Z5 name, as previously rumoured

BMW will offer an early glimpse of its next Z4 roadster with the Z4 Concept, which will be shown at the upcoming Pebble Beach Concourse d’Elegance this August.

The new open-top concept, currently in the final stage of construction, has been conceived to preview to the new third-generation Z4, which is planned to go on sale in late 2018 as part of what BMW’s head of sales and marketing, Ian Robertson, describes as the most comprehensive new model push.

The 2017 Pebble Beach Concourse d’Elegance kicks off on 16 August and runs through to 20 August.

Codenamed G29, the new 2019-model-year Z4 is being developed in a joint engineering program between BMW and Toyota, which will sell a coupé version as the Supra.

The two cars, which have been seen testing in development form on public roads for several months, will be produced alongside one-another at Magna in Austria.

BMW is said to have retained the Z4 name for its future model, rather than using Z5 as previously rumoured, because Z5 won’t fit with its naming structure, which uses even numbers for performance models.

This is backed up by internal correspondence relating to the G29 project, which all refer to the car as the Z4.

The production Z4 will arrive three months after the new 8 Series, which is due in 2018 and is previewed by the Concept 8 Series.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

That's assuming BMW will be smart enough this time around to reintroduce an M variant! They totally missed the boat on the E89.

agreed. Why was E89 M never offered? Design issues? I know on the E46, they had to do a different driveshaft. I'm guessing cannibalization. A proper Z4 M will probably be faster than any M3. It's akin to selling a Cayman faster than a comparable 911. It just won't happen.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

agreed. Why was E89 M never offered? Design issues?

The e89 wasnt compatibe with the m3 tech at the time.
The e89 basically has a 1 series front suspension and an x3 rear suspension.
So the m3 rear axle could not be mounted to the e89 chassis and developping a seperate rear axle with lsd is way way too expensive for those few e89's that have been sold.
So at the first basic engineering that bmw started they already decided that no e89m would be made, because of the archtecture they chose.

[jts1981]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The e89 wasnt compatibe with the m3 tech at the time.
The e89 basically has a 1 series front suspension and an x3 rear suspension.
So the m3 rear axle could not be mounted to the e89 chassis and developping a seperate rear axle with lsd is way way too expensive for those few e89's that have been sold.
So at the first basic engineering that bmw started they already decided that no e89m would be made, because of the archtecture they chose.

Where did you get this info? E89 has e8x/e9x suspension, and e85 based rear, which was based on e46. This info is taken directly from the e89 technical documents. I personally have e9x M front suspension which bolted directly in.

Now for the Lsd, BMW chose to go with an e-diff which uses rear brakes to simulate an lsd. If they wanted to they could easily put a traditional lsd in. But as we all know the e89 was not a commercial success. Being one of the least selling models didn't justify an M version. But to think that BMW purposely made the e89 with out an M model in mind is foolish. There have been articles stating that there were internal discussions to make an M model.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by supra93

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...l-pebble-beach

Awesome, hope it's there, I certainly will be I have a feeling it'll take a lot of cues from the 8er, esp the concave on the sides

[supra93]

BMW's new Z4 convertible is being developed alongside new Toyota Supra, and is shaping up nicely ahead of reveal later this year

The next BMW Z4 is set to arrive at the end of this year, and our exclusive images show how the new two-seat roadster could look. It has already been spotted testing on multiple occasions, with the most recent spyshots showing it winter testing with a slightly more revealing disguise compared to earlier mules lapping the Nurburgring.

The new Z4 Roadster will replace the ageing second-generation model, in production since 2009, and be a fresh rival for the likes of the Porsche 718 Boxster, as well as a reborn Toyota Supra currently being developed in parallel and set to use the same platform.

Our exclusive images shows how the new car will ditch the current Z4's heavy metal folding roof for a lighter, more traditional fabric hood. This could mean it's being aimed more towards the Porsche 718 Boxster and away from softer, more refined cars like the Mercedes SLC. The soft-top will gain a rear window for production.

An insider told us that “this car will use the same lightweight body construction as the i3 and i8. And even with that type of construction, you can expect a price around the same as that of the current Z4."

The familiar set-back cabin, pert rear-end and long bonnet remain on the new model and the kidney grille looks to be larger than ever.

Mounted behind the front axle will be a range of BMW’s ‘TwinPower’ turbo petrol engines which will be offered in both four and six-cylinder forms. Expect at least 200bhp from base models, with top-end turbocharged straight-six variants nudging 300bhp. As before, all cars will be rear-wheel drive.

The Z4 will also use the same rear axle design as the M3 and M4, and it’s likely that a full M version will follow within a year, possibly using the M2’s 365bhp 3.0-litre straight-six.

The Z4 also provides a base for Toyota’s new super-coupe. Rumours suggest it will bring back the iconic 'Supra' name, though unlike the Z4 Roadster it'll be a hard-top coupe, influenced by the FT-1 concept from 2014.

The Toyota version has potential to receive a plug-in hybrid model, with electric motors boosting output instead of a turbocharger.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/z4/...f-new-roadster




2017 Toyota Supra to get automatic gearbox and BMW electronics

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...nd-launch-date

Latest shots show Supra's look both inside and out; it'll share its underpinnings and gearbox with the upcoming BMW Z4

The hotly anticipated Toyota Supra will have an automatic gearbox and BMW electronics, as shown by a new sighting of a development car's interior.

Photographed testing at the Nürburgring, the two-seater model, which is twinned with the next BMW Z4, features BMW switchgear, including a dash-top infotainment system and accompanying rotary dial controller on the central tunnel, as well as BMW heating control buttons and a BMW automatic gearlever.

The Supra is expected to share its automatic gearbox with the BMW, albeit with different ratios, while also incorporating the same hybrid four-wheel drive set-up, comprised of a BMW petrol engine mated to electric motors with energy stored in supercapacitors - which will have technical links to the ones used in Toyota’s TS030 Hybrid Le Mans car.

Toyota has refrained from revealing any details about its new coupé, telling Autocar: "We don't comment on future products". However,ut sources claim that the car's use of a hybrid set-up means it will likely be offered exclusively with an automatic gearbox.

Design influence for the model comes from the FT-1 concept of the 2014 Detroit motor show. The Supra will be built on the same platform as the upcoming Z4, which will use BMW’s carbonfibre architecture from its current i3, i8 and 7 Series. However, unlike the convertible Z4, the Supra will only be available as a coupé.

Predicted to arrive in 2018, shortly after its Z4 counterpart, the new Supra is the long-awaited successor to Toyota’s discontinued coupé, production of which ended in 2002.

The new Supra will sit above the GT86 in Toyota’s line-up, making it the Japanese brand’s flagship sports car. It will also be considerably more expensive than the GT86, which is priced from £26,855, due to the Supra's advanced powertrain and construction.

Toyota first demonstrated the performance potential of a hybrid model back in 2013 with the Yaris Hybrid-R concept car, which used a 414bhp set-up comprising a 1.6-litre four-cylinder petrol engine and an electric motor on each rear wheel.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by jts1981

Where did you get this info? E89 has e8x/e9x suspension, and e85 based rear, which was based on e46. This info is taken directly from the e89 technical documents. I personally have e9x M front suspension which bolted directly in.

Yes... front suspension....
1 series and 3 series front is virtually the same
Rear is NOT based on e46.
It looks like e46, but look at the upper control arms: not aluminium but pressed steel. This type of fabrication has the x3 also. But the e85/e46 not. This is not tech from the e46. This part is not fitted on the e85. So its more akin with the e83 than with the e85/e46.
The only part it shares with the e85 (same part# so 100% swappable) are the rear lower suspension arms.
Everything else has no same partnumbers (bushings maybe, but not the arms and subframes)

Or do you also have a rear e46 m3 axle in it?
Would be interesting to build one. I wonder if it has been done yet (I can think of a few interesting problems that have to be tackled...)

Now for the Lsd, BMW chose to go with an e-diff which uses rear brakes to simulate an lsd.

e-diff on brakes is a gimmick. very unprecise. But cheap as it doesnt involve any new parts.
any serious performance car that uses a computer controlled lsd has a proper unit with computer acturated clutchpacks. Like the m3 has. They go through all this trouble because it works.

If they wanted to they could easily put a traditional lsd in.

No they cant because they dont have that in their stock partslist.
BMW is not the kind of manufacturer that'll make special parts on completely different tech in small numbers. Putting in a diff from a 3rd party is way way too expensive. The $700 or so for a different diff will result in a multitude of that up on the sales price. And I think the 35is also has that welded diff system? that makes it even more complex. Far too complex to just alter it.

But as we all know the e89 was not a commercial success. Being one of the least selling models didn't justify an M version. But to think that BMW purposely made the e89 with out an M model in mind is foolish. There have been articles stating that there were internal discussions to make an M model.

Articles by journalists.....
When they chose the rear axle architecture they knew an LSD was not possible anymore. E46 m3 diffs arent made anymore, if you order one, you get a refurb (goes for any e46/e85 diff afaik; all rmfd/rebuilds)

Everthing in car manufacture is about what platform you use. That determines what's possibe within reasonable margin.
BMW will never make an M without proper LSD and it will always use an LSD for that that is in their partsprogram. Z3m has an lsd from the e36 (inner core e36, outer casing stock z3), e85 z4m has the e46 m3 rear axle with diff, but the e89 cant have the e90 m3 axle.Thus no e89m.
If it was that simple as you think it is they would have done it.
Look at the e86m. Sold in very few numbers, but still they did it because it was easily possible. They had the parts.

[Rick Hunter]

I'd never agree to this but...

Since BMW ///M is more of a marketing machine nowadays, they should have just badged the E89 Z4 35is an M. Same engine as in the 1M (which IMO should have been called the 135is). Would have sold like hot cakes.

I guess they've learned their lesson by M badge whoring out the rest of the lineup nowadays (M240i, M760i, etc.)

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

Same engine as in the 1M (which IMO should have been called the 135is). Would have sold like hot cakes.

No LSD and no (semi) floating brakes on the 35is.
Both are now (well, since almost 2 decades) 'aquired technologies' for a true 'M' model.
So if they'd call the 35is an //M it would be a sub par //M for the people who have in depth knowledge on automotive tech.
It should have been in the M performance lineup if you transpose it to the current lineup.
Just like the e82 135i.
But so would every sub top model of previous generations.

[supra93]

Another rendering

[MalibuBimmer]

Looks like a Mercedes SLK competitor. Meh.