[Diver]

http://wardsauto.com/politics/poor-h...5-cafe-targets

It appears that a combination of cheap petrol and a consumer dislike for Hybrid cars is making it impossible to meet the 2025 target of 55 MPG for the US fleet average. The EPA has claimed consumers would be able to buy the cars they want, but I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Red Bread]

Did I sleep through ten years? Recent oil prices were nothing more than OPEC running off the shale producers in North America, higher prices are sure to follow.

[gtaccord]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Don't blame consumers and cheap gas as the problem, blame the manufacturers for being lazy and not developing the right motors/drivetrain packages.

In the words of Jay Leno (paraphrased), I don't care what the car is powered by, so long as it's fun.

This is nothing new but has little to do with the "lazy" manufacturers. They set the CAFE standards to push the manufacturers to more heavily invest into technologies that would push up average fleet fuel economy. The investment is literally billions of dollars industry wide but in the end the manufacturers still need to sell cars to make money and they develop and sell products that the consumer wants. The problem is that the only technology/cars that exist that meet even the current standards (not even the future ones) easily are electrics, hybrids and small cars with 4 cylinder or smaller engines. Hence the move to smaller engines and turbochargers but this can only take us so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy

With our love of trucks and SUVs I don't see consumer preference changing very soon so I don't see how the manufacturers will be able to continue to meet the standards.

At some point the automakers will do the math and decide that the penalties are less expensive than trying to comply or the only cars available will be the prius, volt, i3, tesla etc.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Don't blame consumers and cheap gas as the problem, blame the manufacturers for being lazy and not developing the right motors/drivetrain packages.

In the words of Jay Leno (paraphrased), I don't care what the car is powered by, so long as it's fun.

There are a large amount of people who do not want to drive small engines and or electric cars no matter how fast they are.

[SocalBM]

Trucks! 'Merica luvs trucks! Manly trucks gotta have 37 inch wheels, huge lifts, and those classy balls hangin' off the back. 'MERICA!!!!

[falls6]

I agree with your opinion. we should wait for the right time

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Ezio

There are a large amount of people who do not want to drive small engines and or electric cars no matter how fast they are.

There's also a large number of people who don't care so long as they're fun, well built and well engineered.

[pgviper]

Name a Hybrid car that is actually fun to drive and easy on the eyes that falls into the "appliance" car category (< $40k when optioned out)...

THERE IS NONE.

Fill that spot with a hybrid capable of 55 mpg and it will sell.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

There's also a large number of people who don't care so long as they're fun, well built and well engineered.

maybe that might work on smaller sports cars.

but no way would a Lamborghini or truck owner would want a 4 cylinder hybrid/electric engine.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Ezio

maybe that might work on smaller sports cars.

but no way would a Lamborghini or truck owner would want a 4 cylinder hybrid/electric engine.

People probably said that about hybrids too, but some of the world's fastest exotics are hybrids.

That said, if a 4 cylinder hybrid/electric engine can't at least provide the power owners are used to, then it won't happen.

Since CAFE is a function of the total corporate average fuel economy, a company like Lambo for example, would fall under the VAG overall average so given the overall size of the Volkswagen Automotive Group, their cars have a very small impact on overall fuel economy.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

People probably said that about hybrids too, but some of the world's fastest exotics are hybrids.

That said, if a 4 cylinder hybrid/electric engine can't at least provide the power owners are used to, then it won't happen.

Since CAFE is a function of the total corporate average fuel economy, a company like Lambo for example, would fall under the VAG overall average so given the overall size of the Volkswagen Automotive Group, their cars have a very small impact on overall fuel economy.

ya i understand that. but if they were able to make the power from a 4 cylinder hybrid. People buying certain types of car do not want 4 cylinder or other type of small engine. my point being a car just cant be fun, its got to have more than just fun factor.

sure a tesla is probably fun to drive, but it doesn't have any sound to the engine.

[pgviper]

It's pretty simple...

The

1) PRICE
2) STYLING
3) PERFORMANCE

of a hybrid car are just not up to par yet. The ones that are priced for the masses look like shit or have terrible performance. The ones that look good are either priced to high or have shitty performance and the ones that perform, well they usually also have great styling but insaneeeee prices.

You want to change the averages of a country, appeal to the masses.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Did I sleep through ten years? Recent oil prices were nothing more than OPEC running off the shale producers in North America, higher prices are sure to follow.

While I could see prices going higher, I think the OPEC running off the shale producers meme is attempting to cover up the fact there is a glut of oil due to the worldwide economy slowing. If everything were as rosy as they'd want you to believe, oil prices would be high and there wouldn't be a max glut of oil just sitting there.

Low oil prices were supposed to be good for the consumer as well, so why have retail sales and consumer confidence declined? I guess high oil prices are good for the consumer too! It's all bullshit.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by NickyC

While I could see prices going higher, I think the OPEC running off the shale producers meme is attempting to cover up the fact there is a glut of oil due to the worldwide economy slowing. If everything were as rosy as they'd want you to believe, oil prices would be high and there wouldn't be a max glut of oil just sitting there.

Low oil prices were supposed to be good for the consumer as well, so why have retail sales and consumer confidence declined? I guess high oil prices are good for the consumer too! It's all bullshit.

I thoroughly enjoy your optimistic view of the world.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Did I sleep through ten years? Recent oil prices were nothing more than OPEC running off the shale producers in North America, higher prices are sure to follow.

Yup, exactly. Highest gas prices in history will be coming if OPEC(Saudis) continue this game. Once demand increases and Saudis have shut down all small oil producers.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by SocalBM

Trucks! 'Merica luvs trucks! Manly trucks gotta have 37 inch wheels, huge lifts, and those classy balls hangin' off the back. 'MERICA!!!!

There should be gas guzzler tax on V8 trucks. I don't get why it is only performance vehicles.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Ezio

maybe that might work on smaller sports cars.

but no way would a Lamborghini or truck owner would want a 4 cylinder hybrid/electric engine.

If they can make a truck with a hybrid turbo/electric powertrain, that has the torque of big diesel. I would get in line. Diesel trucks sound like sh*t anyways.

[Meeni]

2025 is in ten years. A lot can happen between now and then.

[SocalBM]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

There should be gas guzzler tax on V8 trucks. I don't get why it is only performance vehicles.

Politics, Unions, and greed.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I thoroughly enjoy your optimistic view of the world.

May we live in interesting times.

[Vigilante375]

Diesel vehicles get very good MPGs, damn good actually, but are just the same as the small, 4 cylinder engines in petrol vehicles.....slow and boring.

There has been and will be no way that vehicles will get a min of 55 MPG by 2025 or even by 2050. Maybe close to that goal by then but I'd still say no.

People love the SUVs and trucks because most can fixed easily, take a beating and keep on ticking (as they say), go for hundred of thousands of miles with little to no problems and have the versatility that, more than likely, a lot of people want. I don't see many small vehicles having that ability.

[Meeni]

As far as I know, first gen prius owners are still raking miles on them to this day for the most part.

Now, it's clear that having a 4 ton SUV be fuel efficient is not going to happen. A wagon has most of the same versatility without the gas consumption. Even most CUVs get decent mileage and are still featuring all the things a full size SUV is liked for, as long as one doesn't need the 7 seating.