BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > TuningWerks "Flash tune" Unlocks hidden potential on the M235i & M135i
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      11-20-2014, 05:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I drive a 136 hp 116i, and I rarely miss more power. The car is also used on track days.
Its different strokes for different folks. If you are happy with 116i, then great.

Suggest you don't test drive an M135i or a 120/5d. By comparison, the way these cars go down the road may seriously cloud your view of the 116i
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      11-20-2014, 06:37 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sootyvrs View Post
All to do with "wants" and not "needs"

Similar to why you got the 116i when you could have had the 114i... you "wanted" the bigger engine
who loves power, there is never enough power... in my case, i have e81 116d, 116hp... before i drive renault clio 1.5dCi

the difference was wow... then i go tune 116d to 170hp and 433nm... first week was woooow... but then was only, what can i do to have extra 30hp or more

still with 170hp i was driving like original 116hp, but i know when i need power i have it... almost similar is with 135i... car go very very nice in stock, but it always good to know when you have some extra hp
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      11-20-2014, 07:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sootyvrs View Post
All to do with "wants" and not "needs"

Similar to why you got the 116i when you could have had the 114i... you "wanted" the bigger engine
The 114i was not available at the time I ordered, and I think the power output in the 116i suits my driving pattern better. If it was less powerful, overtaking other cars would be slightly more risky. The reason for going with a low power car is mostly local taxes.

If I was driving more on German Autobahns, I would feel the need for a stronger engine.

I don't quite understand the argument with the Golf and the Mercedes. If you had 500 hp, there would be other cars with even more power to compare against. And if you happen to race a car, it is even more fun to win if you have less power than the other car!
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      11-20-2014, 07:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Suggest you don't test drive an M135i or a 120/5d. By comparison, the way these cars go down the road may seriously cloud your view of the 116i
I have noticed!
As a driving instructor on tracks, I sometimes find myself in some rather quick cars. I remember a drive in the E92 M3 V8 made the 116i feel rather slow the next few laps...
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      11-20-2014, 07:28 AM   #27
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Track instruction in 116i ????
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      11-20-2014, 08:03 AM   #28
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On the "trusting" side: I have run a remapped E36 325i remapped E60 535d, remapped E91 335d and remapped WRX STI for a total of well over 300,000 miles without a hitch. The three turbo engines were pulling (on dyno) between 40 and 60 bhp over pre-mapping; the NA was much more moderate, at 15 BHP over. The cars were otherwise unmodded (excepting a couple of stupid things like a boot opening switch on the E60).

On the performance side: I think the answers from Pave Dew and Sootyvsr stand for me too. Plus, to be honest, I have found that properly done remapping not only increases power, but generally results in a (sometimes far) more driveable car in all circumstances.

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      11-20-2014, 08:12 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The 114i was not available at the time I ordered, and I think the power output in the 116i suits my driving pattern better. If it was less powerful, overtaking other cars would be slightly more risky. The reason for going with a low power car is mostly local taxes.

If I was driving more on German Autobahns, I would feel the need for a stronger engine.

I don't quite understand the argument with the Golf and the Mercedes. If you had 500 hp, there would be other cars with even more power to compare against. And if you happen to race a car, it is even more fun to win if you have less power than the other car!
I live 50 km from the German border... and for better or worse taxes on car in Switzerland are far less than in Scandinavian countries (at least, Denmark and Sweden - and now you are confirming Norway too).

Agree with you on the "winning with less power", however there are some races you cannot win just with skill (and - I admit - I'd need far more skill to win some others; are you up for giving a fellow forumer a few lessons, if I ever make it to Stavanger?)
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      11-20-2014, 08:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Track instruction in 116i ????
Yes, why not?
Mostly I am a passenger in other people's cars, giving advice.
Sometimes I drive their cars, or bring them along in mine.

The basic skills are the same for driving different cars. The fast ones reach a higher speed down the straights, and require a longer braking zone, but the corners are rather similar. Rookies usually learn faster in slower cars, since there is not so much power available to make up for mistakes made in the corners. In a fast car, you can do okay laptimes with sloppy driving (there are some nice Nissan GT-R examples on Youtube), but that is not possible with slow cars.
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      11-20-2014, 08:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Track instruction in 116i ????
Not necessarily... you don't need to go on track with your own car (or only with your own car)
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      11-20-2014, 08:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmancoyote View Post
Agree with you on the "winning with less power", however there are some races you cannot win just with skill (and - I admit - I'd need far more skill to win some others; are you up for giving a fellow forumer a few lessons, if I ever make it to Oslo?)
Of course. If we meet at a track event, I am happy to share my advice.

There will always be rookies out there with fast cars driving slowly, but the skilled ones in fast cars can't be beaten if you have a slower car.
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      11-20-2014, 01:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Yes, why not?
Mostly I am a passenger in other people's cars, giving advice.
Sometimes I drive their cars, or bring them along in mine.

The basic skills are the same for driving different cars. The fast ones reach a higher speed down the straights, and require a longer braking zone, but the corners are rather similar. Rookies usually learn faster in slower cars, since there is not so much power available to make up for mistakes made in the corners. In a fast car, you can do okay laptimes with sloppy driving (there are some nice Nissan GT-R examples on Youtube), but that is not possible with slow cars.
140 bhp rwd is fine for learning fundamentals and makes sense in Norway given the price of cars there and no doubt numerous seasonal ice circuit for winter skills tuition. One of my 1st cars was a Morris Minor 1000 with cross ply tyres - great for crafting drifting skills at sub 60 km/h speeds!!

Alas driving for 30+years and done numerous road trips, track days and car club events during that time, even with a tasty driver at the helm, knowing that it has <50% power of my road car, not for me I'm afraid.
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      11-20-2014, 01:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmancoyote View Post
Not necessarily... you don't need to go on track with your own car (or only with your own car)
OMC - I've been fortunate enough to rag many cars and bikes ( either my own or borrowed or rented) round circuits over the years. I know the drill !
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      11-20-2014, 02:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Alas driving for 30+years and done numerous road trips, track days and car club events during that time, even with a tasty driver at the helm, knowing that it has <50% power of my road car, not for me I'm afraid.
It is mostly rookies with very little track experience I take around the track in my own car, to show the basics. I prefer to be a passenger with more experienced drivers, and let them drive some laps while I just observe, looking for details that could be improved.

When you haven't been on a track before, even a 116i can be scary!

Sometimes I let rookie drivers in fast cars follow close behind the 116i for some laps at reduced pace, to show the ideal line. Then I go full speed to try to outpace them.
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      11-20-2014, 04:08 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
OMC - I've been fortunate enough to rag many cars and bikes ( either my own or borrowed or rented) round circuits over the years. I know the drill !
No disrespect meant - but you are the one who added 4 question marks... as if in disbelief

(BTW - one of the finest cars I have driven around a track remains the pre-2000 Lotus Elise: 120 bhp...)
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      11-20-2014, 04:20 PM   #37
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Yes, had a similar exp at IoM TT course a long while back. This time I was trying to keep up with a Manx local on his courier m'cycle and I was a 1 litre sports bike. Really struggled to keep back of his bike in my sights !
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      11-20-2014, 07:30 PM   #38
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While I've never seen a horsepower I didn't like, I tend to agree with Ove. Now I understand it's different strokes for different folks, but for my M135 I would prioritise traction, then handling, then braking over power. A mechanical LSD would be great, but still a little too expensive to contemplate at the moment. IMHO, not much point adding more power if it's not possible to use what's already on tap effectively.

Handling, well...I've been down this path many times before, and know I could make the M135 handle really, really well. It already handles well....and I know from experience that additional suspension tuning will be at the expense of ride unless I go to an expensive coil over setup.

Brakes? They're very effective out of the box, too....maybe a different compound pad (anyone tried anything new?) and fluid
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      11-21-2014, 01:20 AM   #39
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Timbo,

Agree 100% on making sure chassis can cope before turning up the wick under the bonnet.

Hence why my car has LSD, springs, ARB's and TBH m135i std brakes hold up v well. I may upgrade lines, fluid and pads at some point in the future.

Car still rides v well but much better planted. Rear stability and traction much improved esp with JB4 st2

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      11-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Timbo,

Agree 100% on making sure chassis can cope before turning up the wick under the bonnet.

Hence why my car has LSD, springs, ARB's and TBH m135i std brakes hold up v well. I may upgrade lines, fluid and pads at some point in the future.

Car still rides v well but much better planted. Rear stability and traction much improved esp with JB4 st2
I guess you have to get out of London to enjoy it at it's best then as it's not like the M25 is a motorway and when the Tube was on strike / broken I would need 3 hours to do 13 miles.
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      11-21-2014, 09:49 AM   #41
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Bob - yep, regularly visit outlaws, who live between Anglesey circuit & Evo triangle in N Wales........
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      11-21-2014, 09:59 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob UK View Post
I guess you have to get out of London to enjoy it at it's best then as it's not like the M25 is a motorway and when the Tube was on strike / broken I would need 3 hours to do 13 miles.
Mind you - I suspect this is true of any "M" ("M performance" or "true" M) in stock form, never mind with any performance enhancing mods.
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      11-21-2014, 03:17 PM   #43
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Bob/OMC - suburban stop start traffic is why this m135i is my 1st auto ! BP
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      11-22-2014, 08:41 AM   #44
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Quote:
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Bob/OMC - suburban stop start traffic is why this m135i is my 1st auto ! BP
I hear that, when I had to go from Whitehall to Bushey setting off at 14:00 I was driving my 320d e46 which was a manual. By the time I got home just after 17:00, my left leg was in tatters but on the plus side the clutch never grumbled which was impressive.
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