[baege]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Buy a Mazda Miata, swap engine with an LS7 from C6 ZO6, purchase aftermarket warranty/insurance...problem solved.

In all seriousness most if not all "light weight/nimble" cars usually only have 4 or 6 cylinder engines due to space and weight. The only way to match the low end grunt of a V8 is to turbo charge the engine. You're requirements are too stringent. If you find a car that's "Newish/CPO, small and nimble, has good low end grunt, and is non turbo'd" please let us know.

now that's what I am talking about, the engine swap with a v8 into a miata is interesting, something I hadn't thought of and something I may research, but the whole non oem warranty thing is a bit of a pickle

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by baege

now that's what I am talking about, the engine swap with a v8 into a miata is interesting, something I hadn't thought of and something I may research, but the whole non oem warranty thing is a bit of a pickle

Honestly given your criteria this seems like the best option. You need to stuff a big LS Motor into as small of a body as you can. Rx7 and boxster are popular transplant recipients

http://www.renegadehybrids.com

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by baege

I drove an m235i about a year ago. I felt lag. Otherwise a pretty sweet car. the m2 is on my radar but the turbo thing dulls my enthusiasm.

That's what you get for driving a fine sports car. You are spoiled.

Its totally your fault.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by baege

I drove an m235i about a year ago. I felt lag. Otherwise a pretty sweet car. the m2 is on my radar but the turbo thing dulls my enthusiasm.

What lag? These engines make full torque from around 1500rpm, which means lag is pretty much impossible.

What is possible is simply being in too low of a gear. I had a big V8 with a huge amount of torque on my last car, and if I was cruising at 45-50mph in 6th gear at 1000 and I hit the gas, guess what happened? Not much, just a slow acceleration, you had to get into much higher RPMs to start getting into serious torque, and cars are geared like this for a few reasons, one is to give you decent range of RPM and speeds and another is to give you decent mileage, so it won't necessarily pull up a steep hill at 1000rpm at 50mph, you WILL have to shift. To get it to "go", I was best off rev-matching to 3rd gear from 6th and then I'd take off like a bat out of ***.

The turbo lag on older japanese cars (I had one of those too) where you have to get to around 2800-3000rpm to get full boost is a totally different animal, yes, these just flat out won't build any RPM below around 2500 when the engine is loaded, like going up a hill with the A/C on, you will have to downshift kind of crazy-like, but THAT is real turbo lag, not what you are going to experience in a modern turbo BMW. That people call it "turbo lag" is disappointing. It's simply being in too low of a gear, and I a big displacement/high torque V8 will do the same thing...you gotta shift. Practice rev-matching and dropping more than one gear at a time.

If you want a lot of torque, there are two main ways, one is displacement, two is pressurizing those cylinders beyond what they get from inherent compression.

You only have a few options:

Non-pressurized V6s/I-6s and flat-6s are right out, they aren't big enough to generate the torque you are asking for and need to be revved quite high to get at their usable torque.

Pressurized engines with modern turbos mounted close to the exhaust headers will generate huge amounts of torque from ridiculously low RPM. Most of these have a flat curve, but beware, a few drop off significantly above about 5.5K, so your "go" disappears with the torque.

Supercharged engines gradually build up torque and are happiest in the high RPM ranges, think that V6 from before, but magnified many times. A boatload of torque at lower RPMs they are not.

Big displacement V8s can be ok, but you gotta play your cards right, there's big displacement for lots of torque, and there are small displacement that rev high for lots of HP, like the old M3 engine with only 296lb/ft. This makes something around the LS3 probably the ticket, with something as big as the LS7 a possibility. These have decent torque from low and a decent curve, but again it's not startling kick in your pants like can be achieved with turbos. One of the main advantages over my turbo car was being able to build torque as RPM climbed, rather than have it remain constant or even drop off.

[STOOF]

e9x M3

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by baege

not sure why it's such a unicorn, to me it seems like a combination many would appreciate and there would be a good market for...

It's because modern turbocharged engines have little lag and so most people aren't turbo-averse anymore. When Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren are using turbo charged engines to power the worlds most coveted high performance cars, yet you remain unconvinced, that just might be a signal that you are missing the boat and the world is passing you by. Just saying.

Nothing wrong with old school power though, which is why I suggested the project car. However, if it were me I'd steer wide of a Miata, and instead pick up a German car such as a Z4 M. I would also avoid a pushrod V8s and instead use a higher revving engine such an an S65 (bored/stroked if you want more torque) or similar. That's me though.

[lowbudgethero]

you're driving it lol

the only other cars that came to mind was a 911, which is heavier and too pricey and the Evora S, which might too pricey as well

also a TVR tuscan speed six came to mind which is old, a widowmaker, and a TVR

[tb's e90]

How about a c63 coupe? Seems to check all the boxes.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tb's e90

How about a c63 coupe? Seems to check all the boxes.

A C63 with a manual transmission?

[Steeler]

Alfa 4C

[NickyC]

Z4M Roadster or Coupe!!

(admittedly my answer to every car related inquiry)

;D

[vsix]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

A car as big (and a LOT heavier), if not bigger than an M4?

OP, good luck with your unicorn search. If you stumble upon the Loch Ness monster or a sasquatch let us know. I don't think your car exists but....

You should test the new 718 Boxter. Yes, it's turbo but who knows, Porsche may have negated the lag.

Yes,
SVT GT 500-period-

[baege]

Originally Posted by Shredicus

Honestly given your criteria this seems like the best option. You need to stuff a big LS Motor into as small of a body as you can. Rx7 and boxster are popular transplant recipients

http://www.renegadehybrids.com

thanks for the link, interesting stuff

no warranty and reliability concerns do make me wonder though

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Z4M Roadster or Coupe!!

(admittedly my answer to every car related inquiry)

;D

but it doesnt meet with his requirements.
Not new, not a huge amount of torque down low....

[DieGrüneHölle]

Only new car that comes close to your specs and $80k limit is a Stingray Z51, big torquey V8 and under 3,300.

If you want to stay in the Porsche family and need more hp/tq. Look for a CPO 991 S, 400hp/325tq with the 3.8L.

[baege]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It's because modern turbocharged engines have little lag and so most people aren't turbo-averse anymore. When Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren are using turbo charged engines to power the worlds most coveted high performance cars, yet you remain unconvinced, that just might be a signal that you are missing the boat and the world is passing you by. Just saying.

Nothing wrong with old school power though, which is why I suggested the project car. However, if it were me I'd steer wide of a Miata, and instead pick up a German car such as a Z4 M. I would also avoid a pushrod V8s and instead use a higher revving engine such an an S65 (bored/stroked if you want more torque) or similar. That's me though.

for some reason I am very sensitive to turbo lag, back in the day I drove a 128i and 135i back to back and preferred the 128i because even though it was slower, it was much more responsive and immediate in its throttle
lag still exists and it takes away from the driving experience for me, but yes different boats for different folks

[RABAUKE]

Lotus

[yousefnjr]

Sounds like you just want your existing car to have more power. No idea what mods are available, but why not throw a few bucks at it and give it some balls. Not going to find anything that's a better fit for you that's new.

[Lichen]

I guess you need something like "Tesla Roadster".

[Ezio]

man people and there needs to drive tiny cars.

I see it two ways. Small nimble car is mostly going to have a small turbo engine.

Or you need to get a american v8 powered sports car. Like a mustang or corvette. Which you said was to big.

thats your choices.

[WreckerX5d]

Arial Atom with a V8 fits your needs.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

Arial Atom with a V8 fits your needs.

There you go end thread.