[No one]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I doubt that's helping your cause very much. If they see you're not interested, why would they engage? If you want this fixed there's going to be some discussion about what's normal and acceptable, and what's not.

If they admit they can't do anything, what's the purpose of further discussion? Spending time? Or proving they claim wrong as there's still something they can do: soothing.

Another way to find out if the clonking issue is so very common could be test driving.

IMHO, "if you want it fixed" you should look for a(nother) service that is capable of proper diagnostics and fixing. This can be much simpler than proving to these people they underestimate themselves and giving them too many chances to learn by trying.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by No one

If they admit they can't do anything, what's the purpose of further discussion? Spending time? Or proving they claim wrong as there's still something they can do: soothing. .

Because they're not admitting there's nothing they can do.....they're choosing to do nothing because its difficult, hard to find and in their opinion, not dangerous

Originally Posted by No one

Another way to find out if the clonking issue is so very common could be test driving..

If it happens with 1:100 cars, that's an awful lot of test driving you'd need to do to find even 2 examples of the problem. Some problems only show up once there's thousands of production units in the field and a small proportion exhibit similar problems

Originally Posted by No one

IMHO, "if you want it fixed" you should look for a(nother) service that is capable of proper diagnostics and fixing. This can be much simpler than proving to these people they underestimate themselves and giving them too many chances to learn by trying.

Every authorized dealer has the tools and trained technicians to fix this problem. This is simply a negotiation about whether something tricky, difficult to find and probably benign gets fixed under warranty.

Some faults are really only 'cosmetic' or 'annoying' like a squeak or a rattle but can be damned difficult to trace and fix. So dealers tend to filter their customers into those who'll accept the problem as 'normal' and those who won't.

[No one]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Because they're not admitting there's nothing they can do.....they're choosing to do nothing because its difficult, hard to find and in their opinion, not dangerous

It's your assumption:

Originally Posted by osvic

I gave up listening past the "theres nothing we can do".

.

I admit it's a fair one and you can try to prove your point that "can" and "want" aren't synonyms. It's just a hard way, IMHO. I deny violence. Bending people to do something should be avoided if possible. Softer options could be better to explore (if they exist, of course).

Originally Posted by SteveC

If it happens with 1:100 cars, that's an awful lot of test driving you'd need to do to find even 2 examples of the problem.

My point was: if the single test car shows no sign of the issue you can claim "I want the same!".

Originally Posted by SteveC

Every authorized dealer has the tools and trained technicians to fix this problem. This is simply a negotiation about whether something tricky, difficult to find and probably benign gets fixed under warranty.

Yes of course. It's just from practice (I don't have a wealth of experience, fortunately, just pay attention to others' forum reports) they still differ in approach and qualification. Sometimes it takes no dispute. And neither much time and effort. If they just have the experience investigating and solving the issue successfully either from more constructive approach or from being defeated by another tough customer already, for example (letting alone the technicians "quality": "train" isn't always "gain").

[Bob UK]

Servotronic steering IS a variable system, the assistance is increased when low speed manouvering and firms up at higher speeds.

If sport is selected the steering feel is set to firmer all the time iirc.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Bob UK

Servotronic steering IS a variable system, the assistance is increased when low speed manouvering and firms up at higher speeds.

If sport is selected the steering feel is set to firmer all the time iirc.

Yes, the power assist is variable, unlike the basic steering. The so called variable sport steering does however have variable ratio, being faster towards the ends than the center. Or perhaps more variable than the regular steering.

I have the consistent steering!

[No one]

Originally Posted by Bob UK

Servotronic steering IS a variable system

Not in that sense, sorry. Please see the The_BMW_1_Series_Sports_Hatch_3-door_and_5-door_Brochure_April_2014.pdf currently available at www.bmw.co.uk to find the following:

"Variable Sport Steering. This optional mechanical system constantly adjusts the steering ratio to suit the driving situation. With the help of Servotronic, it reduces the steering movement required to turn the wheels to make light work of parking and manoeuvring. Furthermore, it increases agility, noticeable in particular when driving dynamically around tight bends and curves (standard with M135i)."

and

"2VL Variable Sport steering includes Servotronic and reduces the necessary steering movement in large steering wheel turns."

[Bob UK]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

Yes, the power assist is variable, unlike the basic steering. The so called variable sport steering does however have variable ratio, being faster towards the ends than the center. Or perhaps more variable than the regular steering.

I have the consistent steering!

Ah a more concise explanation of what was being referred to as being variable.

I have the standard steering on the X1 and I prefer it (No clonking either).

[oldmancoyote]

FWIW, I tried to cause a clonking in my car (M135i, so it should have the variable sports steering) - no avail. Tried from a standstill, moving slowly, even with the engine turned off on a fairly slippery floor; to the left and to the right. The tyres would squeak at times, but no suspension noise whatsoever.

@osvic: does the dealer admit that your steering makes a noise? Or is it something that - like many of these gremlins - only manifests itself when you are driving but disappears as soon as a mechanic is in sight?

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by No one

It's your assumption:

Correct. But given that a car is simply a collection of parts, screwed and bolted together, all of which can be replaced, its a pretty safe assumption..
If they've replaced nothing so far, then by definition they can do more.

I'm not trying to be right here....I'm just trying to help

Sometimes you'll buy a car that has a fault that will drive you nuts, that another driver may hardly notice, if at all. A squeak in the dashboard, creaking in the seat, rattle in the centre consul whatever. Both BMW and the dealer know very well to try and avoid repairing these cosmetic 'blemishes' because it costs time and money. However they will repair them if the customer insists.

There's a guy kept taking his Jag back because of a creaking groaning noise from the back pillar. The guy is anal about his cars (sorry 'nuts' if you're reading this). After several visits, Jaguar gave up, took his 6 month old car back and gave him a brand new one. They treated him with respect because he didn't let them off the hook (and because he buys loads of cars)

[No one]

This discussion obviously needs a conclusion already but I just can't help adding another bit. Sorry.

Originally Posted by SteveC

If they've replaced nothing so far, then by definition they can do more.

They have:

Originally Posted by osvic

I have had a new steering rack,

Originally Posted by SteveC

I'm not trying to be right here....I'm just trying to help

Sure. So am I. No offence.

Originally Posted by SteveC

Both BMW and the dealer know very well to try and avoid repairing these cosmetic 'blemishes' because it costs time and money. However they will repair them if the customer insists.

AFAIK, BMW does work on eliminating "weak points". Some of F20/21's are gone (hopefully): steering squeak, rear rattle in cold weather, cooling system leak - I never experienced these on my 2013 June (well, I'm into my second winter, still worried a bit...). They issue the software and parts upgrades - people say. Of course it's all from customer feedback. I had my boot door warranty repainted (paint doming) - they noticed it when I came in for oil change and fixed "on their own", though people had to argue for that previously.

Originally Posted by SteveC

because he buys loads of cars

That must be expensive.

A Peugeot cabrio owner once was told by an authorized service they had no means to repair his folding roof. He went to another (same city) and got it fixed no questions asked.

Both approaches we've discussed can work or work not in a particular situation. And the choice certainly depends on one's temper as well. osvic just seems to lack some patience which is no good every time.

[SteveC]

Let's agree to agree

[osvic]

Just for clarity on the test drive point I was given a loan car on 6 of the visits back to the dealership.

120d M Sport - no knocking
116I Sport - no knocking
320d touring M Sport - no knocking
2 x 118d sport - no knocking
316d touring sport - no knocking.

I pointed this out to the dealer. I have complained the BMW UK just in general aboutmy disappointment and they inform me it is a characteristic of the car and my dealer had been in contact with technical support at every opportunity!! So nothing more is going to happen!

[matthewcornish]

Originally Posted by osvic

they inform me it is a characteristic of the car

That's a shame. I'm worried because I've been told this about what I regard to be a fault on my car and feel that I'm not going to get anywhere with it.

[oldmancoyote]

Originally Posted by osvic

Just for clarity on the test drive point I was given a loan car on 6 of the visits back to the dealership.

120d M Sport - no knocking
116I Sport - no knocking
320d touring M Sport - no knocking
2 x 118d sport - no knocking
316d touring sport - no knocking.

I pointed this out to the dealer. I have complained the BMW UK just in general aboutmy disappointment and they inform me it is a characteristic of the car and my dealer had been in contact with technical support at every opportunity!! So nothing more is going to happen!

But I think the point on the test drive is not only whether the other cars clonk; it's more to do with whether the dealer hears (or admits) that yours does AND that the others don't. If the latter is the case, they cannot claim that it is a "characteristic of the car", and you could well have a fair case to reject the car and ask for a replacement.