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      07-04-2013, 08:55 PM   #1
westphone
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Car Driving Techniques vs. Go Kart Techniques

Hello there. My quick question is while regardless what car we drive, from let's say a Civic Si, to the M135i, to a perhaps Formula Ford, key to fast laps is stick to the line (hitting apex en route), being consistent no skidding, and loads more of course.

That said I have been struggling at a local go karting ring with 2 cycle 100 cc kart. I understand I am a heavy person so I am inherently slower, but the margin is still massive taken that into consideration. The guys there said they drift very slightly in one or two corners to keep the rev. up, and they recommend that's what I should try. However, it goes against everything I am taught in car racing. I have a karting race coming up in about one month, and time in a kart is expensive. I am just wondering has anyone encountered such advice. They seem genuinely willing to help....

In fact I appreciate any comments and have been reading books and internet, just want to improve the time. Being in the back is not much fun

Thanks to your helps in advance.
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      07-05-2013, 01:46 AM   #2
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A fast lap is done by sticking to a good line and driving consistently on the limit.

But what is a good line? You will of course have to use the width of the track to the maximum. Any space you leave between you and the edge of the track is lost speed. You also have to decide which corners should be dealt with by driving early or late apex.

In general, you can look at the time spent on full throttle. The longer this time is on a track section, the later apex you need in the corner preceding it, to optimize the exit speed. Keep the vehicle tidy at the exit, and avoid sliding. Focus on being early on the throttle.

In a corner that connects a high speed section with a low speed section, you need to bleed off the speed as late as possible. This means an early apex entry and trail braking. Sliding the vehicle is an option here if you have the necessary car control.

In gokarts, weight control is rather important. While braking, you should lean back as far as possible. Since there is no differential in the back, you want to unload the inside rear tire by leaning outwards a bit in the corners. It is quite common to go around corners on three wheels.

In general, if you have low power and lots of grip, you want to carry lots of speed through the corners with a rather early apex, and sling out of the corner. With lots of power and low grip, you want to brake more, enter slowly, drive a late apex and focus on acceleration out of the corners.

Some tires work best with very little slip, so you have to avoid sliding. Other tire types generate the maximum grip while sliding quite a bit, so you need to be more aggressive.
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      07-05-2013, 03:19 AM   #3
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Thank you ovekvam, you suggestions I will try next time
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      07-05-2013, 03:54 AM   #4
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from my karting experiences, the point to fast lap time in a go kart racing is to keep the rev up, because its engine has very little torque, much of the speed relies on revving the engine high
so strangely, if you can do controlled skidding or drifting and keep the rev up, you will exit the corner much faster
even in car driving
keeping the perfect line without skidding is just part of the story
in fact in some rare cases, it is faster to drift even in the car than having all 4 wheels sticking to the ground, which is where drifting originally came from
so to go kart fast, brake less, rev up, if the road is in good condition it isnt difficult to drift a bit in corners
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      07-05-2013, 04:22 AM   #5
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Yes, I guess keeping the RPM up is very important when driving a two stroke 100 cc gokart. It is however easy to be carried away and get it too sideways coming out of corners, and then you lose speed. Narrow drifting is the way to go. Going very sideways is okay at corner entry, as you want to slow down anyway. It will only cost you more tire wear.

Jumping in the seat is another trick to bring the RPM up during exits of tight corners at low RPM.

When I drove this gokart, drifting was rather important to go fast, as the spikes need to claw into the ice to generate traction:

RPM was not a big issue, since the engine was rather powerful, and it had 6 gears...
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      07-05-2013, 05:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
A fast lap is done by sticking to a good line and driving consistently on the limit.

But what is a good line? You will of course have to use the width of the track to the maximum. Any space you leave between you and the edge of the track is lost speed. You also have to decide which corners should be dealt with by driving early or late apex.

In general, you can look at the time spent on full throttle. The longer this time is on a track section, the later apex you need in the corner preceding it, to optimize the exit speed. Keep the vehicle tidy at the exit, and avoid sliding. Focus on being early on the throttle.

In a corner that connects a high speed section with a low speed section, you need to bleed off the speed as late as possible. This means an early apex entry and trail braking. Sliding the vehicle is an option here if you have the necessary car control.

In gokarts, weight control is rather important. While braking, you should lean back as far as possible. Since there is no differential in the back, you want to unload the inside rear tire by leaning outwards a bit in the corners. It is quite common to go around corners on three wheels.

In general, if you have low power and lots of grip, you want to carry lots of speed through the corners with a rather early apex, and sling out of the corner. With lots of power and low grip, you want to brake more, enter slowly, drive a late apex and focus on acceleration out of the corners.

Some tires work best with very little slip, so you have to avoid sliding. Other tire types generate the maximum grip while sliding quite a bit, so you need to be more aggressive.

I agree with this, and with the need to keep revs up in go-karts. Just one modification: the fastest way between two points is always a straight line, so you need to think of the track as a series of straight lines, and look at the track map with that in mind. Then, yes , how to keep the kart in its power band as you negotiate that map, ie, off braking and turning, and back on power. Sooo easy to say! The answer is, of course, practice!
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      07-05-2013, 12:53 PM   #7
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From my experience, as with most 2-stroke engines, kart engines have almost all their torque at the top end - keep the speed up and take corners wide if necessary, don't slow to get the optimum line as you will lose any advantage when you come to accelerate out of the bend (opposite to normal car where torque is more optimal at lower speeds / gears).

As a good example you stick your hand in a 2-stroke lawnmower whilst the blades are spinning [you'll struggle ever playing chess again], versus, holding onto the blades and starting it up [you'll stall the engine]

***Don't try that at home kids!***
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      07-05-2013, 05:28 PM   #8
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i miss gokarting! its just so stupidly expensive here, rather go to a track day =P
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      07-06-2013, 03:37 AM   #9
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Thank you all very much for replying. Indeed few sentences turn into so much need for practice. Karting here is also very expensive here, so I don't get to do it often. This is the place I go to with the map, and hope it shows up in your browser.

http://karting.trk.com.tw/

I ran around 30 minutes. The first thing is definitely fitness. Stamina matters, my action is pick up cycling again just for karting. The ambient of 35 degree Celsius and 70~80% humidity do not help either.

In our beginning of our laps there is a complex "heavily inspired" by the 1, 2, 3 corner complex in Sepang, which also leads off to the very long straight. It is crucial to late apex hold off until the point when one can launch off to the straight. Discipline matters very much.

Then comes to our discussion to slide or not. I find sliding slightly, than letting the tires stick, in certain places help turning while not letting the rev drop, but difficulty increases, so more practice I guess. In general the racing line is still kept, although trail braking was added half way through the session until I was sure I am okay with threshold braking at the end of the long straight. I have some pictures and the link here for your entertainment. No unfortunately they didn't let me having a go in the Lotus

Thanks again, and I will keep practicing
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      07-06-2013, 03:52 AM   #10
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When track time is limited, it is also possible to prepare yourself with mental training. This is quite common in autoX. In Norway, we are only allowed three runs, and no practice. The two best runs counts.

In this situation it is a good idea to run the course mentally. Picture it in your head, and try to remember as many details as possible, including sound. Try to make it real time, so one lap in your head takes just as long time as it would in the real world. Imagine what inputs you do to the gokart, and how it will react.

This is a common way to improve your own performance in many sports. You will also see downhill skiers do this quite a lot before setting off down the slope.
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      07-06-2013, 04:25 AM   #11
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ovekvam, it seems like you are very well prepared for this type of races and it's good to read and learn from your experience
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      07-06-2013, 06:54 AM   #12
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I used to compete in autoX for quite a few years (100+ races), and my best result was second place in the Norwegian championship. I also have 50+ track weekends and quite a few driving school events under my belt (some as instructor). But my gokart experience is more limited. I never had my own gokart. Only borrowed a few times from others, and drove some rental karts.
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      07-07-2013, 10:39 PM   #13
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Go Karting is expensive in your place?
we dont even have it in Hong Kong anymore...
I wish I had some expensive Go Kart to choose from...
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      07-08-2013, 12:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldt View Post
Go Karting is expensive in your place?
we dont even have it in Hong Kong anymore...
I wish I had some expensive Go Kart to choose from...
In Norway, owning a gokart is not really expensive. For me, the expensive bit would be to buy some way of transporting and storing it. It certainly doesn't fit into an F20. The tire budget is also rather steep if you want to be competetive.
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      07-14-2013, 05:39 AM   #15
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A suitable transport for the kart would cost 1/4 of a band new kart here, granted the little truck is used.

Here's a link when when racing vs. kart limit is discussed


I personally find the best is little different from the text book ideal line (for me, at least), but they are close enough to realize both are very important. The most different for me is fast karters sacrifice more entry than I, but gets on the gas much early on to "boost the rev," and I witness his driving and pulling away from me. Naturally much practice ahead, and I really do appreciate all your help. So far it has been different from saloon car racing.

I have driven passengers cars in the snow; however, I cannot imagine what it is like to drive a kart in the snow, it must be something else XD
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      07-14-2013, 05:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westphone View Post
A suitable transport for the kart would cost 1/4 of a band new kart here, granted the little truck is used.
What kind of suitable transport would that be? A pickup truck? They cost around the same as a normal car here.
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      07-14-2013, 06:08 AM   #17
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We got lots of those there. Fitting a roof to the bed is relative cheap too.
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      07-14-2013, 06:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
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We got lots of those there. Fitting a roof to the bed is relative cheap too.
Yes, I have seen those in Asia. They do not exist in Scandinavia, I think.
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