[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by cc3

With the number of new models launched in last 12 months they should be growing more than this. What has happened to the i3. Public not ready for volume electric cars at this price point ?

i3 is definitely not the hit BMW expected. Has it been a flop, not anywhere near it. But I can almost guarantee they had expected to shift more units. They made those initial ridiculously low sales forecasts on purpose, so sales numbers could be spun into better news down the road.

Nissan has sold more than twice the amount of the Leaf in 2015, than the i3. Even though it is an older model about to get a refresh.

The tech from the i3 and i8 will eventually trickle down into the higher volume cars. That is when they will start to see a return on the enormous R&D cost of the i-program.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

To be fair, Audi has improved substantially in their offerings with the popular A3/S3 selling very well and I suspect the new A4 will help too. Mercedes has had tremendous success with the CLA and GLA too as well as their redesigned C-Class. BMW was late to that party but they're hopping on the FWD bandwagon in the US soon enough.

I agree. Also BMW had incredible sales last year, so it is difficult to improve upon that. Audi's new A4 will definitely give them a bump through the last quarter of this year. Mercedes also has new GLK replacement the GLC, which I think will be a big hit. Huge improvement over the out going GLK.

[GMe90]

Aren't these sale figures proof positive that most BMWs are no longer driver's cars aimed at enthusiasts? Toyota sells a lot of cars. And Toyotas are about as far as you can get from fun cars. There seems to be a correlation between huge sales numbers and less engaging vehicles.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Aren't these sale figures proof positive that most BMWs are no longer driver's cars aimed at enthusiasts? Toyota sells a lot of cars. And Toyotas are about as far as you can get from fun cars. There seems to be a correlation between huge sales numbers and less engaging vehicles.

It might be proof positive that BMW makes the proper number of cars that enthusiasts want to buy. Probably less than 10% of the US drivers want or care about the having a stiff suspension or road feel. For those that do, BMW has products that address that niche market.

This is not a difficult concept. BMW competes in a very competitive world market. They have to grow and innovate to succeed and thrive. Some of that growth and innovation is not going to please everybody. BMW is a business selling in different markets to customers with varying needs. It sells a variety of products to meet those needs. Not every car is going to meet the needs of a few.


People shopping for a BMW just need to do their homework and spec the car that's right for them. With the information available on this forum and others it is not difficult. If a person buys the wrong car or gets the wrong features and then blames BMW for non-enthusiast cars, well, that's just nuts. It would be like being a beef eater and going to McDonalds and ordering a chicken sandwich and then complaining that the sandwich does not taste like beef.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by cc3

With the number of new models launched in last 12 months they should be growing more than this. What has happened to the i3. Public not ready for volume electric cars that look like that ?

Fixed it for you, and no.

[64-bit]

In 2013 I got lots of incentives between rebates, bmw trade and bmw finance I got $2,700 total

Now buying a 2016 M3 with $1,200 increase and $0 rebates / incentives

It is getting harder and harder to own a new BMW this days unless you are stink rich of course.

[BES418]

FYI - many of these sales are "punched" cars. Not true new car deliveries. Punched cars are cars that dealers retail as demos which shows in BMWs #s as sales. All these punched cars are still sitting on dealers lots, plus all the new new car inventory. Such bs why all companies cant just report real numbers and not inflated.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

In 2013 I got lots of incentives between rebates, bmw trade and bmw finance I got $2,700 total

Now buying a 2016 M3 with $1,200 increase and $0 rebates / incentives

It is getting harder and harder to own a new BMW this days unless you are stink rich of course.

Yes and no. The incentives and rebates are all timing - BMW will always have them. It's just a matter of when. It's not like BMW is withholding them, they're in the business of selling cars and giving out incentives helps them do that.

It's easy to get into a BMW. What's hard is getting the BMW that you want.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

For a car company that some driving enthusiasts argue has lost its way, BMW seems to be doing just fine.

While we can complain about numb steering, lack of road feel, the logic of naming the 4 series, the increased size of the 3 series, the run flat tires, the missing dip sticks, the inferior materials used in the f30 interior, m badges used all over the place, the diesel sound of direct injection, fake engine noise piped through the audio system, etc, etc, etc, BMW continues to sell more cars than ever.

With market pressures to sell to a broader audience, safety regulations, environmental regulations, and technology evolution in play, BMW will never build the car we loved yesterday.

I think the group of products BMW offers are pretty darn great as a whole. Just sayin'

And if during all this.. they have added BMW-i and then also now what appears to be a possible reintroduction of the CSL .... Agree.. Just sayin..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by BES418

FYI - many of these sales are "punched" cars. Not true new car deliveries. Punched cars are cars that dealers retail as demos which shows in BMWs #s as sales. All these punched cars are still sitting on dealers lots, plus all the new new car inventory. Such bs why all companies cant just report real numbers and not inflated.

It's BS because the numbers aren't the way you want them right?

The numbers are what they are. If it leaves the factory and a dealer has paid for it... then it's sold.
This ain't Wal-mart or Target... . It's certainly not going to be RETURNED at any point..
So why get all twisted over the actual date of sale to an end user... ?

It doesn't matter if it eventually gets sold as a fleet vehicle to a rental car company.. or is as you say... a " punched car " (is that a made up term?) or if it becomes a dealer loan car that gets blown out as a demo.. or whether it goes out the door that month to a single end user.. The vehicle simply is going to be sold to a retail customer somewhere, at some point.. Even if a dealership goes under and liquidates their inventory.. each car is going somewhere.. Even the cars that sink on a ship.... they will get bought by an insurance company..

Bottom line is you can count them as they leave the dealers or as they leave the factory.. but either way you count them
...both #s are going to be the same

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by djsaad1

True but the 6 series went down about 50% compared to last August, and they released the lci in march. If the lci is selling worse than the previous model year, then something is wrong.

Agree. Ouch.

[Z4dlinniy]

Guys, what is happening with 5 series?
it is second bestseller in BMW range after 3 series and is 21% down YTD, that is a tremendous drop.
yes, it is old model, but it will be on the market another year before model change. Mercedes and Audi did not launch nothing new that can that way effect sales.
BMW should pay attention to this problem 5 series is one of the elephant for the Brand

[M3 n X5M]

Originally Posted by Z4dlinniy

Guys, what is happening with 5 series?
it is second bestseller in BMW range after 3 series and is 21% down YTD, that is a tremendous drop.
yes, it is old model, but it will be on the market another year before model change. Mercedes and Audi did not launch nothing new that can that way effect sales.
BMW should pay attention to this problem 5 series is one of the elephant for the Brand

After the new 3 series emerged the 5 series looks in all ways too busy, slow and lethargic, by comparison. At least to me.

I have zero interest to even test drive a five series now that the F30 is out.

As an anecdote, I sat in a new 5 series at the dealer and it just felt like it carried more metal around. And that was all it conveyed over the F30.

So, I am hypothesizing the F30 took a lot of the F10 market.

[Z4dlinniy]

Originally Posted by BES418

FYI - many of these sales are "punched" cars. Not true new car deliveries. Punched cars are cars that dealers retail as demos which shows in BMWs #s as sales. All these punched cars are still sitting on dealers lots, plus all the new new car inventory. Such bs why all companies cant just report real numbers and not inflated.

It actually does not matter from statistical point of view. The only thing that matters is compliance of compared datasets, in other words fair comparison.
If BMW reports same sales data YoY, growth is fair. The only thing needed to be checked is stock increase if we are talking about sales to the dealers lots. If BMW report sales to the end customers, that does not matter.

[Z4dlinniy]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

After the new 3 series emerged the 5 series looks in all ways too busy, slow and lethargic, by comparison. At least to me.

I have zero interest to even test drive a five series now that the F30 is out.

As an anecdote, I sat in a new 5 series at the dealer and it just felt like it carried more metal around. And that was all it conveyed over the F30.

So, I am hypothesizing the F30 took a lot of the F10 market.

Then it is even more dangerous for BMW, if 3 series cannibalize 5 series sales (I'm not saying that it does, just following your idea) than 3 series sales should grow way over market growth and that is not a case just 3,7% growth YTD, so BMW in even bigger problem, own cheaper car 3 steal it higher brother sales and not catch up with market growth.
from my point of view 3 series is a different car compare to 5 series. different target audience and the problem can be connected with customer preferences shift and BMW need seriously consider that threat and find countermeasure

[Matski]

Don't forget you're only looking at a 5th of BMW sales here, and we all know the rest of the words buying patterns don't necessarily match the USA's.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Z4dlinniy

Then it is even more dangerous for BMW, if 3 series cannibalize 5 series sales (I'm not saying that it does, just following your idea) than 3 series sales should grow way over market growth and that is not a case just 3,7% growth YTD, so BMW in even bigger problem, own cheaper car 3 steal it higher brother sales and not catch up with market growth.
from my point of view 3 series is a different car compare to 5 series. different target audience and the problem can be connected with customer preferences shift and BMW need seriously consider that threat and find countermeasure

3 and 4 series combined sales are up about 12% YTD (81,897 last year, 91,711 this year) and I think last year sales would include the 3 series coupe. Only reason I know that the 4 series is up 32% YTD.

[BES418]

Right. It's just a matter of timing. Number produced and sold will eventually equal anyway. But when they compare 2%increase in sales, etc. etc. many of this has to do with cars dealers retail (as told by bmw) and not cars actually delivered to customers.
Another example is when bmw or whoever posts declining sales, this is mainly due to bmw or whoever not making the dealers retail the cars on their lots (so sales are down).
Again, in the end its the same, but its annoying that actual sales numbers per month arent always true.

[phyek]

Too bad they don't breakout M sales.

Any idea how many M3/M4 are sold annually?

[raysspl]

[YaBoyQ]

BMW FTW!

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

After the new 3 series emerged the 5 series looks in all ways too busy, slow and lethargic, by comparison. At least to me.

I have zero interest to even test drive a five series now that the F30 is out.

As an anecdote, I sat in a new 5 series at the dealer and it just felt like it carried more metal around. And that was all it conveyed over the F30.

So, I am hypothesizing the F30 took a lot of the F10 market.

That and the 5 Series is 7 years old, the latest gen E-Class, A6, and CTS are all newer.