BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > 116i vs. 118i
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      12-29-2014, 05:57 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Yeah I believe BMWs are underrated in general.

FWIW, I ended up going with the Audi A3...
Hi Vervain,

The A3 seems like a really nice car. In fact this review rated it as better than the 1 series.

I'm assuming you are happy with it?

What attracted you?



I'm just curious as to what spec you went for in the end i.e. closer to 116i or 118i ha ha?
Hey. As you can see from my first post, I had this dilemma over a year ago, but ended up only buying the new A3 three months ago!

I got the 1.4 tfsi s-tronic. While it is slower than even the 116i, the s-tronic gearbox makes it feel must faster than it is. I love the gearbox.

What got me to buy the A3 over the 1 series was the overall quality feeling I got from the car in base form. The interior seems like it belongs in a much more expensive car, not only visually but in a tangible sense too. I didn't get that from the 1 series.

The exterior is also breathtaking (to me at least) as I really fell in love with the 2door coupe with the panoramic roof and xenons. I additionally got the dealer to paint the wheels gloss black and I bought the chrome tips for the exhaust, which all gives it a striking appearance on the road. I get compliments all the time.

I feel I got more car for the money than if I went with the 1 series. I'm really happy with the driving experience too. It's super economical and can really be fun when you push it.
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      12-29-2014, 06:00 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
With 138 hp at the rear hubs, the power at the crank is probably somewhere around 150 hp.

I can afford any F20 I want, but I would take the 116i again. Actually next time I want the 3 cylinder version. I don't really need more power, so why waste money on it? The 114i seems slightly underpowered for my needs, but the 116i is just right.
Hi Ove,

The power at the crank obviously depends upon the efficiency of the gearbox. I have no idea of the actual efficiency of the gearbox, so I simply assumed that the website I found is based upon something that represents the real world. If you think your figure of 150 is more accurate, I wouldn't dispute that.

If I really wanted to but a M135i, I could have stretched my budget, likewise I could buy my partner a Golf GTI, but I will probably balance the performance to cost with a cheaper less powerful Golf GT.

It is a matter of balance, because the extra power is not worth the extra cost to me at this stage. Therefore the 116i is also the perfect match for me at this time. If I want more power in the future, I will add an AC Schnitzer tune, which is only £1500 in the UK (well within my budget), but I really don't think I want the extra performance.

I think I'm making sense, but No one is so adamant that I'm deluded, that maybe I'm not?
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      12-29-2014, 06:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by No one View Post
Hi RMech,



My comment was not about your being pleased with 116i, it was about your attempt to compare it with 118i.

My 118i is a huge performance improvement over my previous car but if I could choose a 125i (the M Performance power upgrade is a must for it ) instead I simply would, even though the difference is far smaller. My point is it's just no use looking at performance figures if you can't go past the price ones.



You appear so much concerned about performance (in this and another thread) that I would suggest you chose wrong, but you know yourself better, of course!

I can confirm the value of M-Sport package (the optional M-Sport brakes mustn't be overlooked!) but if I had the similar choice against a 125i... Anyway, setup against performance is not performance against performance, is it?



Too much of a gap, IMHO. They must be biased. If that is "almost the same" then what are different planets?



It is. By the comparison. Comments from M135i owners on lower versions are worth nothing. If they say "just the same thing!" would you really buy that?
Hi No one,

Wow those were quite a lot of comments, and I'm not sure I really understood them all, so I will try to make my point more succinctly.

When considering buying a 116i I was very concerned about power, because there seemed to be a lot of comments on forums stating that it was underpowered. When I purchased the car, I found that the performance exceeded my expectation, and consequently felt that the forums were misleading (albeit unintentionally).

I am simply trying to give a balanced view of what to expect from the 116i, and how it compares to the 118i (especially as that is the title of this thread).

I can't see how I can make that comparison any more accurate than by sharing the research e.g. youtube links I found.

I'm not trying to denigrate the 118i, obviously provides more performance than the 116i at a greater cost. If I was so obsessed with having the most powerful car, I would buy a tuning kit, or a faster car.

Am I really coming across as delusional, or do you just like winding people up?
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      12-29-2014, 06:33 PM   #70
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Why worry about what others think or believe. You don't go out and buy an item because of the status symbol of it, well we don't in New Zealand. We buy because we enjoy the product. If you would like a Porsche or Rolex then buy them.

Their's a so called entry model for every product and I don't see the 116i as an entry model I see someone who has purchased to suit their needs.
Hi Kiwi,

I guess we are all different, so some care deeply what others think, while others couldn't care less. I think in actual fact a lot of people do buy a bmw as a status symbol, and although I like to think that I am not like that, I did feel that it helped to add credibility to my business (as a small business owner). The marketing people always want to protect the perceived value of a brand while still selling to the largest market possible. I guess that the 116i is the M Sport entry, while the M135i is the pinnacle, and bmw offer a suitable range to try to meet the needs of all. I just wanted to spell it out for other considering the 116i, that it certainly worth considering, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for it on the forum (Probably because if you say you are impressed, then you are accused of being delusional ha ha).
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      12-29-2014, 06:47 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Hey. As you can see from my first post, I had this dilemma over a year ago, but ended up only buying the new A3 three months ago!

I got the 1.4 tfsi s-tronic. While it is slower than even the 116i, the s-tronic gearbox makes it feel must faster than it is. I love the gearbox.

What got me to buy the A3 over the 1 series was the overall quality feeling I got from the car in base form. The interior seems like it belongs in a much more expensive car, not only visually but in a tangible sense too. I didn't get that from the 1 series.

The exterior is also breathtaking (to me at least) as I really fell in love with the 2door coupe with the panoramic roof and xenons. I additionally got the dealer to paint the wheels gloss black and I bought the chrome tips for the exhaust, which all gives it a striking appearance on the road. I get compliments all the time.

I feel I got more car for the money than if I went with the 1 series. I'm really happy with the driving experience too. It's super economical and can really be fun when you push it.
Hi Vervain,

Thank that is really interesting. My partner is currently considering a Golf, Polo or A1. I must admit that the bmw is a bit spartan by comparison, but I just felt it was the car for me (more of an emotional choice than anything). Everyone says that the A3 is better finished and it sounds like you got a lot of bang for your buck. The trouble with using these forums to evaluate cars, is that it becomes all about performance on paper, and we get everything out of balance. It was only when I stated driving my car, that I realised how important some of the functional extras are for example streaming spotify from my phone using bluetooth and hoe crap the standard lights are on my 1 series (bloody terrible ha ha).

The s-tronic gearbox sounds really cool, what is so good about it? Does it have flappy paddles?

I'm very impressed with my auto box because I can only drive automatics, and for the first time I don't seem to be at a disadvantage for it. I even have more gears than the manual ha ha.
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      12-29-2014, 07:14 PM   #72
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Hi Vervain,

Thank that is really interesting. My partner is currently considering a Golf, Polo or A1. I must admit that the bmw is a bit spartan by comparison, but I just felt it was the car for me (more of an emotional choice than anything). Everyone says that the A3 is better finished and it sounds like you got a lot of bang for your buck. The trouble with using these forums to evaluate cars, is that it becomes all about performance on paper, and we get everything out of balance. It was only when I stated driving my car, that I realised how important some of the functional extras are for example streaming spotify from my phone using bluetooth and hoe crap the standard lights are on my 1 series (bloody terrible ha ha).

The s-tronic gearbox sounds really cool, what is so good about it? Does it have flappy paddles?

I'm very impressed with my auto box because I can only drive automatics, and for the first time I don't seem to be at a disadvantage for it. I even have more gears than the manual ha ha.
Go for the A1! lol. The new facelift looks sharp and should be a handful considering is weight, size and FI engine. I've recently driven the polo 1.2 turbo highline with Dsg and while it drove well, there was no sense of occasion in the drive nor the cabin feel. It was just a normal polo to me..

Yeah I also got carried away with the performance of the cars on here, hence this (very anti-climatic) thread lol. I realised that I wanted the best specs on paper without properly evaluating what I actually needed..

The gearbox is so unbelievably smooth it's spooky lol. It holds gears well in normal D mode. It gets even better in S and the changes are even snappier. Kickdown is awesome since it drops gears so quickly.
It does not have paddle shifters, just the normal tiptronic shifter. I've used it a few times and while it's fun, I find leaving the gearbox to do its own thing is much faster, even though that's probably not the point of it lol.

I've always driven manual but I don't think I will ever buy one after this car. I'm sold!
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      12-30-2014, 12:20 AM   #73
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[QUOTE=RMech;17143704]Hi Kiwi,

I guess we are all different, so some care deeply what others think, while others couldn't care less. I think in actual fact a lot of people do buy a bmw as a status symbol, and although I like to think that I am not like that, I did feel that it helped to add credibility to my business (as a small business owner). The marketing people always want to protect the perceived value of a brand while still selling to the largest market possible. I guess that the 116i is the M Sport entry, while the M135i is the pinnacle, and bmw offer a suitable range to try to meet the needs of all. I just wanted to spell it out for other considering the 116i, that it certainly worth considering, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for it on the forum (Probably because if you say you are impressed, then you are accused of being delusional ha ha).[/QUOT]

I've had clients say your business must be going well owning a BMW and signed the contract. 99.9% wouldn't even know my BMW is a 116i M Sport which I totally enjoy driving and being a cheaper BMW I don't need to look after it to much. My time can be spent on other more fun activities.
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      12-30-2014, 01:59 AM   #74
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Some people will always buy the top model, without even considering what they really need. An example: Lets say there is a new mobile phone on the market, sold in two versions:

1. 2000x3000 resolution basic model.
2. 4000x6000 resolution top model.

The top model is twice the price, and half battery life time. Your eyes can not see smaller pixels than 2000x3000. In reality there are only disadvantages by getting the top model, but lots of people will still buy it.

The situation is not exactly the same with a 116i vs an M135i, but it has some similarities. There is a price difference, a range difference, and most people can not even use the full potential of the 116i. The cheaper car can also easily do the speed limit and follow the car in front, so the huge potential of the more expensive car is usually wasted.

I rarely/never use the full power of the 116i in public traffic. The exception is track driving and German Autobahns. For track days, the 116i is plenty fast enough to make the corners into a challenge, but I can see why the Germans would buy a more powerful model.
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      12-30-2014, 03:43 AM   #75
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Hi RMech,

[QUOTE=RMech;Am I really coming across as delusional, or do you just like winding people up?[/QUOTE]

Please don't worry. I just had may be a false but strong impression you were trying to present the performance difference between 116i and 118i as negligible simply because you wished it were so. I neither took it personally (the fact I have a 118i is a pure coincidence) nor intended to bother you. I just wanted to share my opinion it was pointless. And even tried to explain why - all in vain. I'm sorry.
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      12-30-2014, 04:31 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Some people will always buy the top model, without even considering what they really need. An example: Lets say there is a new mobile phone on the market, sold in two versions:

1. 2000x3000 resolution basic model.
2. 4000x6000 resolution top model.

The top model is twice the price, and half battery life time. Your eyes can not see smaller pixels than 2000x3000. In reality there are only disadvantages by getting the top model, but lots of people will still buy it.
Does not the higher resolution improve the overall perception? I mean making the whole picture more solid, decreasing the eyes fatigue? It's not about looking at the pixels, it's about seeing the whole picture comfortably.

I use my phone very infrequently, keep it off daily, unless expecting a call. Battery longevity is no concern. I don't change phones often so I want my current one up to date as long as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The situation is not exactly the same with a 116i vs an M135i, but it has some similarities. There is a price difference, a range difference, and most people can not even use the full potential of the 116i. The cheaper car can also easily do the speed limit and follow the car in front, so the huge potential of the more expensive car is usually wasted.
I like acceleration. It's not really about high speed, rather about gaining speed quickly. Just some fun, a part of the "sheer driving pleasure". I don't have much use for the car currently, I even have to take it out just for a ride and I'm glad I enjoy it. In winter, right now, the power tends to be wasted in wheel spin, I have to fight that, but it's just a challenge I enjoy as well. I do realize more power would be more a waste and more difficult to control but it's rather a matter of affordability to me: summer also happens and then I just feel the chassis is ready for more.

Last edited by No one; 12-30-2014 at 04:37 AM..
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      12-30-2014, 05:34 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by No one View Post
Does not the higher resolution improve the overall perception? I mean making the whole picture more solid, decreasing the eyes fatigue? It's not about looking at the pixels, it's about seeing the whole picture comfortably.
In theory it should be the same, but the sales department would probably tell you otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
I use my phone very infrequently, keep it off daily, unless expecting a call. Battery longevity is no concern. I don't change phones often so I want my current one up to date as long as possible.
It matters to some people, particularly if you want to use it for navigation when hiking in the mountains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
I like acceleration. It's not really about high speed, rather about gaining speed quickly. Just some fun, a part of the "sheer driving pleasure". I don't have much use for the car currently, I even have to take it out just for a ride and I'm glad I enjoy it. In winter, right now, the power tends to be wasted in wheel spin, I have to fight that, but it's just a challenge I enjoy as well. I do realize more power would be more a waste and more difficult to control but it's rather a matter of affordability to me: summer also happens and then I just feel the chassis is ready for more.
I know. Sound is also a factor. That is why people disregard common sense, listen to their feelings, and buy something they really don't need!
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      12-30-2014, 06:15 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
In theory it should be the same, but the sales department would probably tell you otherwise.



It matters to some people, particularly if you want to use it for navigation when hiking in the mountains.



I know. Sound is also a factor. That is why people disregard common sense, listen to their feelings, and buy something they really don't need!
I guess the thread started with Vervain asking whether he should buy a 116i or pay the extra for the 118i and then ironically buying an A3, which he is really happy with ha ha.

That has left us debating why we choice our cars and whether we are happy, which is useful information for anyone considering the 116i or 118i in the future.

The best term that I know of to describe the level of quality in Medical Engineering is 'Fit for purpose'.

Ove's point is that just because something has a better specification on paper, doesn't mean that the real world experience will actually be better for the user. Therefore the best car is the one most fit for purpose, and I would argue that includes a lot more parameters than just power to weight ratio. My headlights are terrible so what is the point in being able to go faster if I can't see where I'm going ha ha.

I just want to share my experience of my 116i Auto for anyone who (like me before I brought it) has got the perception from various forums, that it is horribly underpowered.

I am delighted with the performance and so for me it is very fit for purpose. For someone that is more interested in acceleration and less price conscious, they may choose the 118i, and conversely anyone more focused on economy may chose a 114d, 114i or 116d.

I think I'm capturing the spirit of the debate?
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      12-30-2014, 06:27 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by No one View Post
Hi RMech,



Please don't worry. I just had may be a false but strong impression you were trying to present the performance difference between 116i and 118i as negligible simply because you wished it were so. I neither took it personally (the fact I have a 118i is a pure coincidence) nor intended to bother you. I just wanted to share my opinion it was pointless. And even tried to explain why - all in vain. I'm sorry.
Hi No one,

Apology accepted, but telling someone that they are only kidding themselves and they brought the wrong car is deffnitely going to upset people

Perhaps I should explain the background. I went to the bmw dealer, not thinking I could afford a new car. I was surprised to find that I could by using PCP, so I looked at the specs for cars that suited my budget, and then chose a 116i MSport, as the performance on paper looked fine for me.

I then looked on some forums, that said the 116i is very underpowered, and I just couldn't understand, because I couldn't see how it could do 0-100km/h in 8.5 seconds yet feel underpowered?

My last car was an Nissan Almera 1.8 Auto 2004 , which did 0-100km in more like 12 seconds, so I was expecting the 116i to feel a lot quicker, but the forums made me think that it was going to feel gutless.

Consequently I did a lot of research to try to find what is the real world difference between the 116i and 118i (which I could afford if I wanted it enough), because as an Engineer I know statistics can be very deceptive.

I have shared the most objective information that I could find in the form of two youtube video, which compare the 116i and 118i back to back. It's certainly not meant to offend anyone or try to claim that a 116i performs the same as a 118i, that has 25% more power.

It's just designed to help people like myself, who are trying to chose between the two, and accurate perspective, because after reading the forums I had lost perspective.


Last edited by RMech; 12-30-2014 at 08:24 AM..
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      12-30-2014, 06:33 AM   #80
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[QUOTE=Kiwi;17144991]
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Originally Posted by RMech View Post
Hi Kiwi,

I guess we are all different, so some care deeply what others think, while others couldn't care less. I think in actual fact a lot of people do buy a bmw as a status symbol, and although I like to think that I am not like that, I did feel that it helped to add credibility to my business (as a small business owner). The marketing people always want to protect the perceived value of a brand while still selling to the largest market possible. I guess that the 116i is the M Sport entry, while the M135i is the pinnacle, and bmw offer a suitable range to try to meet the needs of all. I just wanted to spell it out for other considering the 116i, that it certainly worth considering, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for it on the forum (Probably because if you say you are impressed, then you are accused of being delusional ha ha).[/QUOT]

I've had clients say your business must be going well owning a BMW and signed the contract. 99.9% wouldn't even know my BMW is a 116i M Sport which I totally enjoy driving and being a cheaper BMW I don't need to look after it to much. My time can be spent on other more fun activities.
I think we probably have a similar perspective. Generally I don't give a damn what I look like, however the impression that people get from you in the business world can directly impact upon your level of success, and consequently a BMW arguably has added value. Funnily enough one of my suppliers just brought a much more expensive one than me, which made me feel much more sensible for not spending as much as him ha ha.

Last edited by RMech; 01-01-2015 at 05:13 AM..
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      12-30-2014, 07:01 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Go for the A1! lol. The new facelift looks sharp and should be a handful considering is weight, size and FI engine. I've recently driven the polo 1.2 turbo highline with Dsg and while it drove well, there was no sense of occasion in the drive nor the cabin feel. It was just a normal polo to me..

Yeah I also got carried away with the performance of the cars on here, hence this (very anti-climatic) thread lol. I realised that I wanted the best specs on paper without properly evaluating what I actually needed..

The gearbox is so unbelievably smooth it's spooky lol. It holds gears well in normal D mode. It gets even better in S and the changes are even snappier. Kickdown is awesome since it drops gears so quickly.
It does not have paddle shifters, just the normal tiptronic shifter. I've used it a few times and while it's fun, I find leaving the gearbox to do its own thing is much faster, even though that's probably not the point of it lol.

I've always driven manual but I don't think I will ever buy one after this car. I'm sold!
That's very interesting. I think the moral of the story is try before you buy, because no matter what someone else thinks, it is what you think that really matters, and I can't believe just how emotional the link we have with our cars is.

My partner really likes VWs, so the A1 would need to be significantly better for her to chose it. She thinks that maybe it and the Polo are a bit small, so also considering a Golf, because the A3 is a bit more than we would like to spend. May just but a second hand car outright, rather than a new one on finance (as I did my 116i).

I think the Audi gearbox is quite different to the bmw and has two clutches (although I haven't looked this up), so perhaps it fees more snappy.

It's interesting to hear that you don't use the manual gear change, and I have heard other people say that they are moving to autos, because there is no real advantage to manual gearboxes other than the pleasure of using them (if you enjoy that).

I completely agree with picking the right car as a complete package. When you look at the specs on paper, all you see is performance, but when you are diving on the public roads (Like most people I've never been on the track) the performance is way down on your list and things like being able to talk clearly on the phone without your hands free dropping out of your ear and down the side of the chair (as mine often did) are much more important.
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      12-30-2014, 09:27 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by RMech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
Go for the A1! lol. The new facelift looks sharp and should be a handful considering is weight, size and FI engine. I've recently driven the polo 1.2 turbo highline with Dsg and while it drove well, there was no sense of occasion in the drive nor the cabin feel. It was just a normal polo to me..

Yeah I also got carried away with the performance of the cars on here, hence this (very anti-climatic) thread lol. I realised that I wanted the best specs on paper without properly evaluating what I actually needed..

The gearbox is so unbelievably smooth it's spooky lol. It holds gears well in normal D mode. It gets even better in S and the changes are even snappier. Kickdown is awesome since it drops gears so quickly.
It does not have paddle shifters, just the normal tiptronic shifter. I've used it a few times and while it's fun, I find leaving the gearbox to do its own thing is much faster, even though that's probably not the point of it lol.

I've always driven manual but I don't think I will ever buy one after this car. I'm sold!
That's very interesting. I think the moral of the story is try before you buy, because no matter what someone else thinks, it is what you think that really matters, and I can't believe just how emotional the link we have with our cars is.

My partner really likes VWs, so the A1 would need to be significantly better for her to chose it. She thinks that maybe it and the Polo are a bit small, so also considering a Golf, because the A3 is a bit more than we would like to spend. May just but a second hand car outright, rather than a new one on finance (as I did my 116i).

I think the Audi gearbox is quite different to the bmw and has two clutches (although I haven't looked this up), so perhaps it fees more snappy.

It's interesting to hear that you don't use the manual gear change, and I have heard other people say that they are moving to autos, because there is no real advantage to manual gearboxes other than the pleasure of using them (if you enjoy that).

I completely agree with picking the right car as a complete package. When you look at the specs on paper, all you see is performance, but when you are diving on the public roads (Like most people I've never been on the track) the performance is way down on your list and things like being able to talk clearly on the phone without your hands free dropping out of your ear and down the side of the chair (as mine often did) are much more important.
If you need the space, go for the golf then. It's basically the same as the A3 as they're from the same platform. Same engines too. If you can, go try out the A3 too and see how your partner likes it. You may be surprised. Not that the golf is bad or anything, but the overall feel of the cars will be different. Maybe you could pick up a demo one and then you'll see why I'm loving it!

I've learnt my lesson from previous purchases. Always shell out the extra cash for the high-end headlights lol!

Have fun in the 1 series!
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      12-30-2014, 09:56 AM   #83
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If you need the space, go for the golf then. It's basically the same as the A3 as they're from the same platform. Same engines too. If you can, go try out the A3 too and see how your partner likes it. You may be surprised. Not that the golf is bad or anything, but the overall feel of the cars will be different. Maybe you could pick up a demo one and then you'll see why I'm loving it!
Or if you want VW engines with plenty of space for the money, check out the Skoda Rapid Spaceback.
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      12-30-2014, 12:58 PM   #84
RMech
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Originally Posted by Vervain View Post
If you need the space, go for the golf then. It's basically the same as the A3 as they're from the same platform. Same engines too. If you can, go try out the A3 too and see how your partner likes it. You may be surprised. Not that the golf is bad or anything, but the overall feel of the cars will be different. Maybe you could pick up a demo one and then you'll see why I'm loving it!

I've learnt my lesson from previous purchases. Always shell out the extra cash for the high-end headlights lol!

Have fun in the 1 series!
The Golf always gets great reviews, but there are so so many of them out there and it does look pretty bland (in my humble opinion). Can you post a picture of your A3? I know it is a bmw forum, and it's a bit off topic, but I''m interested to see it?

I personally think it is shocking that the manufacturers all produce headlight designs that are not really fit for purpose, and then want a great chunk of extra money for proper headlights. All they would need to do is use better bulbs, but then we wouldn't buy the upgrades.
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      12-30-2014, 02:35 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by RMech View Post
The Golf always gets great reviews, but there are so so many of them out there and it does look pretty bland (in my humble opinion). Can you post a picture of your A3? I know it is a bmw forum, and it's a bit off topic, but I''m interested to see it?

I personally think it is shocking that the manufacturers all produce headlight designs that are not really fit for purpose, and then want a great chunk of extra money for proper headlights. All they would need to do is use better bulbs, but then we wouldn't buy the upgrades.
I don't have many pictures of it:

Last edited by Vervain; 01-06-2015 at 03:06 PM..
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      12-30-2014, 02:43 PM   #86
RMech
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Wow that really does look good!

It's not bland like some of the more executive models!

Glad you are really happy with it.
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      12-30-2014, 02:46 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by RMech
Wow that really does look good!

It's not bland like some of the more executive models!

Glad you are really happy with it.
Thanks a lot!
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