[dkhm3]

where are the S55 haters? where?

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

where are the S55 haters? where?

They never really had an argument to begin with.

[Bols]

Woohoo! Go BMW

[MasterC17]

S55 and F8X are brilliant. Glad to see it won.

[raysspl]

[Law]

Well this will definitely help BMW's marketing.

It is odd though, considering that during its debut in 2014, the S55 scored considerably low, below Porsche's 2.7L H-6 and BMW's own N55.

The inconsistency makes the scoring questionable as there have been essentially no revisions/updates to any of the engines listed in the top 3 positions, but their rankings and scores have such significant disparities.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

The conspiracy theorist in me says BMW didn't bump up displacement of the S55, because it would never compete in the 3-4L category. McLaren has had that category on lock down, but the new 488 powerplant will give it some competition.

I hope you're joking and not even a part of you thinks BMW cares enough about Intentional Engine of the Year awards categories to affect their engine and product development.

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by Law

Well this will definitely help BMW's marketing.

It is odd though, considering that during its debut in 2014, the S55 scored considerably low, below Porsche's 2.7L H-6 and BMW's own N55.

The inconsistency makes the scoring questionable as there have been essentially no revisions/updates to any of the engines listed in the top 3 positions, but their rankings and scores have such significant disparities.

Agreed. What are the testing procedures utilized to rank these engines? And who are the evaluators - are they even credible?

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Agreed. What are the testing procedures utilized to rank these engines? And who are the evaluators - are they even credible?

IEotYA is largely subjective. The topic has been addressed a few times on the board. The improvement in score can be, IMO, attributed to shifting ideologies in the industry. These days, efficient performance is all the rage, so engines like the S55 are becoming more attractive (subjectively) as time goes on.

[Law]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

I hope you're joking and don't think BMW cares enough about Intentional Engine of the Year awards categories to affect their engine and product development.

Actually, i don't think he's joking.

These accolades may seem niche and insignificant but they are a positive affirmation to engineers as well as a tool used by marketing teams.

The sales brochure for the E9X M3 bore the logo of this award and proudly described its winning streak in its category.


At the time of writing, the BMWUSA website continues to proudly refer to how the 3-series was on Car & Driver's 10Best list for 22 consecutive years, even after the 3er was dropped from the list.



Awards and praises from third parties boost the morale of engineers and are a useful tool in sales. Being able to tell a prospective customer that your product is ranked the best, or amongst the best, according to "experts" only helps to sell a product.

[eau_rouge]

Guys, please sign up for the (Free) digital issue of Engine Technology international and take a look at the magazine. This is really a professional engineering magazine for engines and engine components. This is nothing for the public or average Toyota drivers (just an example, no disrespect). You can see the judges in the special magazine which you can find in the first post. Maybe you know some of the judges/journalists from the US. For Germany I can tell you that these guys are really relevant for the industry here.

The thing with different opinions over the years is the following: a lot of these judges and journalists really had their first real drive last year with the i8 or M3/4, which means that not a lot of them have driven the S55 or B38 before 2014 awards. I think this is definitely a valid point to consider.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Law

Actually, i don't think he's joking.

There's a much simpler explanation.

Engineering, as much as any other field, tends to develop a set of beliefs that are shared amongst the majority of people working in the field. Currently, one of these beliefs is that 500cc is the optimal cylinder size for efficiency. This belief is held in high regard at BMW. If you watch many of BMW's marketing videos, you'll hear engineering spokespeople mention it this magic number.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 6? You get 3,000, which is the displacement of most BMW designed I6 engines.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 8? You get 4,000, which is the displacement of the S65.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 10? You get 5,000, which is the displacement of the S85.

The simplest explanation is most often the correct one. No conspiracies required to explain this one.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Law

Actually, i don't think he's joking.

These accolades may seem niche and insignificant but they are a positive affirmation to engineers as well as a tool used by marketing teams.

The sales brochure for the E9X M3 bore the logo of this award and proudly described its winning streak in its category.


At the time of writing, the BMWUSA website continues to proudly refer to how the 3-series was on Car & Driver's 10Best list for 22 consecutive years, even after the 3er was dropped from the list.



Awards and praises from third parties boost the morale of engineers and are a useful tool in sales. Being able to tell a prospective customer that your product is ranked the best, or amongst the best, according to "experts" only helps to sell a product.

They care about awards but they will not plan product development around the fact that they're "afraid" to compete with other companies engines. I highly doubt BMW doubts their ability to compete with any engine maker.

Besides that BMW had already stated before the S55 that they found .5liters/cylinder to be the most best configuration balancing performance and efficiency.

It's silly to suggest BMW engineers and design leads purposely didn't make the S55 a 3.2, 3.4, etc. liter engine because they were afraid of competing against McLaren's 3.8 V8 in a single category of an awards program.

[Law]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

There's a much simpler explanation.

Engineering, as much as any other field, tends to develop a set of beliefs that are shared amongst the majority of people working in the field. Currently, one of these beliefs is that 500cc is the optimal cylinder size for efficiency. This belief is held in high regard at BMW. If you watch many of BMW's marketing videos, you'll hear engineering spokespeople mention it this magic number.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 6? You get 3,000, which is the displacement of most BMW designed I6 engines.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 8? You get 4,000, which is the displacement of the S65.

What do you get when you multiply 500 by 10? You get 5,000, which is the displacement of the S85.

The simplest explanation is most often the correct one. No conspiracies required to explain this one.

The video explains how the 500cc/cylinder came to be standardized across BMW's lineup as a modular engine platform.
As to why this is the case, of course BMW will tell you this is the best way to build efficient engines. Like you said yourself, it was a marketing video.
While there may be some engineering truth to that number of 500cc, economics is the underlying reason.
1) Platform sharing
Application: This 500cc cylinder will share not only the same displacement, but the same bore/stroke, compression, piston, rings, etc.
The same cylinder architecture will be used across all engine configurations (inline-3, inline-4, inline-6, etc.) in modern BMW engines beginning with the B-series B37, B38, B47, B48, B58, etc.
Economics: BMW Group only needs one cylinder design (and various components only need to be designed once), which significantly reduces R&D costs, as well as increase efficiency in manufacturing, logistics, and parts availability. Consequently, this allows BMW to continue to expand on its product portfolio through parts sharing. This minimizes costs/increases profits, increases interchangeability of parts (minimizing lead times), reduces the need for special training and tooling for different engines (reduced labor/manufacturing costs), and enhances efficiency as a result.
1b) The S65 and S85 are unrelated to modular platform. While they share the 500cc/cylinder concept, the cylinder architecture is not the same as the new modular platform. In fact, the only engines the S65 and S85 are related to are to each other.

2) Expanding Market Share
Taxation: BMW increasingly wants to target emerging markets across the world. In many markets outside of the US, vehicles are taxed based on engine displacement. For example, in mainland China, 3000cc represents quite a magical number, in that any engine larger than 3.0L is subject to a much higher tax.
China has already overtaken the US as the largest automobile market.
There is a high demand for [relatively] lower displacement vehicles, specifically engines under 3000cc where there is a significantly higher tax for engines exceeding that size. The modular platform with 500cc as a base allows flexibility in engine design and applications that will fall perfectly within tax brackets of various jurisdictions across all markets while reducing tradition limitations in manufacturing different size engines. BMW would no-longer have a problem manufacturing different size engines (in multiples of 500cc) since, as mentioned above, the parts and R&D sharing from this platform allows for quick, logistically sound, and cost-efficient manufacturing processes that increases BMW's ability to pump out engines of various cylinder counts simultaneously and at a high volume.

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

They care about awards but they will not plan product development around the fact that they're "afraid" to compete with other companies engines. I highly doubt BMW doubts their ability to compete with any engine maker.

Besides that BMW had already stated before the S55 that they found .5liters/cylinder to be the most best configuration balancing performance and efficiency.

It's silly to suggest BMW engineers and design leads purposely didn't make the S55 a 3.2, 3.4, etc. liter engine because they were afraid of competing against McLaren's 3.8 V8 in a single category of an awards program.

BMW doesn't design its engines or cars specifically to win awards, but the awards do matter.
Still, there is a reason BMW has stuck with 3.0L. The number is not an accident of history. It is a result of the long term goal of product expansion, market expansion and hence, platform sharing and economics (see above). Logistically and economically, it makes sense as a corporate business case. While the N55 is not technically part of the modular platform, it is the engine that kickstarted BMW's portfolio for expansion internationally.
Flexible power, efficient, and falls within 3.0L made it the engine of choice for BMW's expansion.
So yes, we actually won't see a 3.5L I-6, for example, from BMW anytime soon because of current economics. For BMW at this point in time, 3.0L is the magical number, and it is not mere coincidence.

[SaMaster14]

Didn't the N54 win a ton of awards in the past too?

Did the S65 V8 ever win?

[FogCityM3]

The 0.5 Liters/Cylinder actually originated from academia.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-0-5...engine-design/

of course there are benefits to platform sharing and taxation, but the research on optimal cylinder design started in academia.

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by SaMaster14

Didn't the N54 win a ton of awards in the past too?

Did the S65 V8 ever win?

It won 3~4yrs in a row.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by SaMaster14

Didn't the N54 win a ton of awards in the past too?

Did the S65 V8 ever win?

Originally Posted by Cl0ud7

It won 3~4yrs in a row.

N54 won International Engine of the Year 2007 and 2008. It also won the 2.5 to 3.0 category 6 years in row.

S65 won the 3.0 to 4.0 category 5 years in row.

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Man 230 hp out of 3 cylinders is crazy. Probably underrated too

Not just 3 cylinders, more specifically 1.5 Litres ...

The most powerful engine of all F1 was the BMW M12/13, a turbocharged 1.5-liter inline four-cylinder engine fitted with KKK turbocharger and a Bosch digital electronic management system. BMW’s turbocharged M12/13 engine made its F1 debut with the Brabham team in 1982 ...
The exact amount of power delivered by the Bavarian four-cylinder was unknown, but according to Rosche: “It must have been around 1,400 horsepower; we don’t know for sure because the dyno didn’t go beyond 1,280 horsepower.”

- See more at: http://m.gtspirit.com/2014/05/31/the....gead84Bw.dpuf

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Law

The video explains how the 500cc/cylinder came to be standardized across BMW's lineup as a modular engine platform.
As to why this is the case, of course BMW will tell you this is the best way to build efficient engines. Like you said yourself, it was a marketing video.
While there may be some engineering truth to that number of 500cc, economics is the underlying reason.
1) Platform sharing
Application: This 500cc cylinder will share not only the same displacement, but the same bore/stroke, compression, piston, rings, etc.
The same cylinder architecture will be used across all engine configurations (inline-3, inline-4, inline-6, etc.) in modern BMW engines beginning with the B-series B37, B38, B47, B48, B58, etc.
Economics: BMW Group only needs one cylinder design (and various components only need to be designed once), which significantly reduces R&D costs, as well as increase efficiency in manufacturing, logistics, and parts availability. Consequently, this allows BMW to continue to expand on its product portfolio through parts sharing. This minimizes costs/increases profits, increases interchangeability of parts (minimizing lead times), reduces the need for special training and tooling for different engines (reduced labor/manufacturing costs), and enhances efficiency as a result.
1b) The S65 and S85 are unrelated to modular platform. While they share the 500cc/cylinder concept, the cylinder architecture is not the same as the new modular platform. In fact, the only engines the S65 and S85 are related to are to each other.

2) Expanding Market Share
Taxation: BMW increasingly wants to target emerging markets across the world. In many markets outside of the US, vehicles are taxed based on engine displacement. For example, in mainland China, 3000cc represents quite a magical number, in that any engine larger than 3.0L is subject to a much higher tax.
China has already overtaken the US as the largest automobile market.
There is a high demand for [relatively] lower displacement vehicles, specifically engines under 3000cc where there is a significantly higher tax for engines exceeding that size. The modular platform with 500cc as a base allows flexibility in engine design and applications that will fall perfectly within tax brackets of various jurisdictions across all markets while reducing tradition limitations in manufacturing different size engines. BMW would no-longer have a problem manufacturing different size engines (in multiples of 500cc) since, as mentioned above, the parts and R&D sharing from this platform allows for quick, logistically sound, and cost-efficient manufacturing processes that increases BMW's ability to pump out engines of various cylinder counts simultaneously and at a high volume.






BMW doesn't design its engines or cars specifically to win awards, but the awards do matter.
Still, there is a reason BMW has stuck with 3.0L. The number is not an accident of history. It is a result of the long term goal of product expansion, market expansion and hence, platform sharing and economics (see above). Logistically and economically, it makes sense as a corporate business case. While the N55 is not technically part of the modular platform, it is the engine that kickstarted BMW's portfolio for expansion internationally.
Flexible power, efficient, and falls within 3.0L made it the engine of choice for BMW's expansion.
So yes, we actually won't see a 3.5L I-6, for example, from BMW anytime soon because of current economics. For BMW at this point in time, 3.0L is the magical number, and it is not mere coincidence.

So which is it? Just a few posts back it was some conspiracy to win awards, now it's economics.

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

The 0.5 Liters/Cylinder actually originated from academia.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-0-5...engine-design/

of course there are benefits to platform sharing and taxation, but the research on optimal cylinder design started in academia.

Agree 100% that it's a mixture of many factors.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Law

BMW doesn't design its engines or cars specifically to win awards, but the awards do matter.
Still, there is a reason BMW has stuck with 3.0L. The number is not an accident of history. It is a result of the long term goal of product expansion, market expansion and hence, platform sharing and economics (see above). Logistically and economically, it makes sense as a corporate business case. While the N55 is not technically part of the modular platform, it is the engine that kickstarted BMW's portfolio for expansion internationally.
Flexible power, efficient, and falls within 3.0L made it the engine of choice for BMW's expansion.
So yes, we actually won't see a 3.5L I-6, for example, from BMW anytime soon because of current economics. For BMW at this point in time, 3.0L is the magical number, and it is not mere coincidence.

I never said they don't care about awards, if you look at my first post I specifically said they don't care enough about these specific category awards to affect engine displacement decisions and it's a joke to suggest otherwise.

Also if you look at the second paragraph of my post you'll notice I already said .5L/cylinder is a standard for BMW now by design, at least below the V8, so I'm not sure who you're responding to.

[fiona01]

Sweet!