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      02-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #1
JonF1982
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Should I swap my petrol for a diesel?

Hi All,

I'm currently in a 116i sport, which is 1 year old.

I've just accepted a new job which will require a much longer commute to work. (Around 60 miles round trip each day).

That presents 2 problems, 1 is that my Pertol car will only do about 44mpg (tested on the route i will be doing). Good for a petrol, but not in comparison to a diesel.

2nd is that on my PCP deal, i'll be doing about double the amount of miles than agreed, so will be facing excess milage charges come the end of the agreement.

Given that, i have been wondering if it might be worth my while swapping into a 116d Efficent Dynamics, which might do something like 70mpg on my commute, and with a new deal i could work in the extra miles.

The downsides of doing it are that, at one year old, i'm going to take a big hit on 1st year depreciation.

Second is that normally i know when i'm going to be changing cars and start saving up 12-18 months before to have a reasonable deposit. As this wasnt a planned move, i dont have any cash up front, so i'd probably have to scrimp on the spec of the car, and i'd be trading in a car that is reasonably spec'd.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts.
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      02-14-2013, 12:44 PM   #2
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Firstly congratulations on the new job.

Does the PCP have any early exit fee? Considering the higher first year depreciation you may find you owe more than the car is worth and have to make up the difference.

The other question to consider is where you are currently on your mileage - are you under where the contract expects you to be? If you are, how long until your mileage would match the expected mileage and would that period of time help with saving?

Finally is it possible to simply renegotiate the PCP to allow for the higher mileage and spread the extra cost over the remainder of the period?

Overall I think I'd be tempted to keep the current car and put a little money aside each month to cover the extra mileage cost.

I suspect the real answer is to get the figures and make your mind up with them. Remember to factor in the fuel costs for your expected mileage.
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      02-14-2013, 05:51 PM   #3
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Depreciation hit and cost of early change will probably cost much more than running the car for the period and the extra fuel costs.

Only the OP knows the exact costs, but trading a one year old car is normally prohibitive and not a sensible move if you are trying to control costs.

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      02-15-2013, 03:39 AM   #4
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How about saving enough to buy the car at the end of the contract, avoiding excess mileage fees in the contract, then selling privately?
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      02-15-2013, 04:09 AM   #5
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It's all speculation really. The best thing to do is go and speak to the salesman you bought the car from. Whether you are in negative equity at the moment all depends on what you put down or traded and none of us know that. They will do the figures and let you know where you stand.

As a side not. My commute is a 60 miles round trip each day. I'm in a 125d and am currently averaging 49mpg. I'm happy with that given the cold weather, way I drive given the chance and traffic that I drive in.
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      02-15-2013, 05:20 AM   #6
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Hi Guys,

1st of all thanks for your input, much appreciated.

You're all right , it's going to depend on specifics. To that end, I’ve put some figures out in a spread sheet.

I’ve assumed a few things here just to get the spread sheet to work, 1 is that petrol and diesel prices will remain at what they were when I passed the Shell station this morning. Second is the amount extra for excess mileage. I’ve tried to work from the GFV on the PCP deal, compared to what the finance calculator on the website says at the different amounts of mileage. Third, i've assumed the MPGs.

However, if my calculations are correct, if the monthly payments on the new car worked out anywhere less than £130 a month a month less then I currently pay, I’m better off.

So in a sense, it doesn’t really matter if I am in negative equity or not, it’s about the difference in cost between taking a hit on 1 year depreciation, or taking a hit by running a more expensive car and trading in later with a lot more miles on the clock.

Keeping this car or changing it are both bad ideas from a financial point of view, I just need to choose the best bad idea.
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      02-15-2013, 06:09 AM   #7
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I can well imagine that the 116ED will give you that mpg figure, maybe more.

Im currently in a 116i sport whilst mines in the bodyshop, despite it being a great car for its engine size, when driven sprightly in sport mode (where possible) then put back into eco for traffic and around town situations, im still struggling to get anywhere near 30 mpg, not to mention; that in the period of 5 days that i have had this car, i have put over £35 worth of petrol in it and will have only done just over 100 miles when i return it tomorrow. In comparison, my 120d (much faster, yet thirstier than the 116ED no doubt) will average between 50-55mpg on the same work commute (to work is downhill so i get about 60-65mpg , then 45mpg uphill on the way home). Essentially i spend £75 on diesel every 3.5 weeks; so aslong as the depreciation hit isnt that bad you will definately be better off doing the swap imo. Maybe you'd be better off to pickup a 6-12 month old 116ED from a dealer and get a PCP deal on that. This way you dont take that initial TAX hit on the second car and esssentially you could walk away with a similar deal to what you pay atm. Its what i would do anyways, besides if nothing else: youll spend less time in the fuel station
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      02-15-2013, 08:01 AM   #8
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Hmm, a PCP on a 6-12 month old car will no doubt be worse. The % rate on the AUC cars is hideous so for a car that is still relatively new it can often work out cheaper to finance a brand new one with a good discount on it.

As an example. A friend was recently thinking about getting an M135i. he went to the sales guy i used and got offered a similar discount to myself. He then spotted an ex demo for sale at another dealers. It had only done 2k miles and had over £6k off the price, the salesman said he was sure it would be cheaper than a new car but when he worked it out it was £50 a month more due to the used finance rate.

It seems that one of the big factors in this is going to be the excess mileage charge. How many miles over will you be at the end of the agreement on the 116i?

The diesels can be very efficient if you aim for it. Even in my 125d I can get an indicated 60mpg on my commute if I put a bit of effort in i.e. don't touch sport, keep it to 60mph, eco on the motorway etc.

I really wanted a 125i (135i really but I'm not completely unrealistic) but after using the whichcar? diesel v petrol comparison thing it showed me that the break even point would be in the first year and the overall difference in the cost of ownership would be close to £3k in 4 years.
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      02-15-2013, 08:15 AM   #9
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Yeah, i'd totally fogotten about the different PCP rates, so ignore that comment. With regards to the mileage limit, i was always told that its only a ball park figure. So for example, if you are on a 10k miles plan over 3 years, they have calculated your guaranteed value (and naturally monthly fee's) based on what that cars worth in 36 months with 30k miles on it. Obviously, if you then turn up with 45k miles on it they will hit you with them mileage charges. I was told however, that if you say had 35k miles on that car; yet it was still worth the guaranteed value, they wouldnt hit you with those extra mileage charges. As i say, this is what several dealerships have told me, yet i have never had a car on PCP so im unsure as to how true this is, maybe mowflow can shed some light? I guess it also all depends on what your doing after 3 years, if your taking another car from the same dealership they might not be as bothered, as they can usually offset it against the new car.
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      02-15-2013, 08:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
It seems that one of the big factors in this is going to be the excess mileage charge. How many miles over will you be at the end of the agreement on the 116i?
It will be about double. Currently on 10k a year/4 year deal, 1 year in. Done 12,000 miles already.

3 years at 22k miles + the 12 akready done = 78k.

38,000 * 6.9 p = £2622
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      02-15-2013, 08:19 AM   #11
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The extra miles only take effect if you hand the car back. If your car is worth more than the GFV, you never have to worry as you wouldnt just hand it back, you would trade in your equity, or buy it out and sell it to get your equity out that way.

If it's worth less than the GFV, you either pay your GFV, or hand it back and pay for the extra miles, which ever works out less.
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      02-15-2013, 11:17 AM   #12
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I am in the exact opposite position than you.

I was doing 25k a year and am now doing 4k. My 6 month old 118d is far from economical, especially on short journeys so a petrol would make more sense.

I went in and had a chat with the dealer and the benefit of changing didn't even come close to the loss in value of my car (you will lose £1k a month for the first 6 months).

As for your calculations; I will eat my hat if you manage 70mpg in the ed.. A friend of mine has one and only just manages 52. I am getting 46 from my 118d at the moment.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you get on!
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      02-15-2013, 11:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonF1982 View Post
It will be about double. Currently on 10k a year/4 year deal, 1 year in. Done 12,000 miles already.

3 years at 22k miles + the 12 akready done = 78k.

38,000 * 6.9 p = £2622
That is expensive, as you are on 10k per annum. They load the mileage excess on lower mileage agreements.

You need to talk with a sales guy and see where you really stand, doesn't cost to go and get some figures. But still feel you will find keeping the present car the cheapest option over the next 3-years. Unless you can get a really good deal.

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      02-15-2013, 11:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will-w View Post
....As for your calculations; I will eat my hat if you manage 70mpg in the ed.. A friend of mine has one and only just manages 52. I am getting 46 from my 118d at the moment.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you get on!
I also think 70mpg is very optimistic, around 60mpg more like it with gentle driving, anything over 60mpg would be a bonus, IMO. Can you really get 44mpg in the 116i? If so, you may (with restraint) get 65mpg in the ED.

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      02-15-2013, 11:32 AM   #15
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I can get more than 44 on a good day.

The first time i drove back from the new place i got 48. That was in quiet traffic though.

It's all 50mph dual cabbage ways, as my old man used to call them.
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      02-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonF1982 View Post
I can get more than 44 on a good day.

The first time i drove back from the new place i got 48. That was in quiet traffic though.

It's all 50mph dual cabbage ways, as my old man used to call them.
Ah, you are keeping your speed down. You at least stand the best chance to achieve high mpg. On Honest John's site, no one is posting higher than 65mpg for the ED, (58.2mpg average) perhaps you'd beat that 65mpg figure.

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      02-15-2013, 12:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonF1982 View Post
I can get more than 44 on a good day.
Me too. I usually get around 50 mpg (5.5 L/100 km) on longer trips in our 116i.
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      02-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #18
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I've just bought a 114i on PCP over 48 months with a mileage allowance of 24k per year. The salesman pointed out that I could amend the annual mileage allowance after the first 12 months and not after the last 12 months, so if I thought I might be over or under then can amend it. The salesman also said that if I am over the 72k figure by say no more than 5-10k, then I wouldn't pay any excess mileage.
It was also pointed out that on my 48k lease I will be in a position after month 27 to trade it back in with minimum equity.

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      02-15-2013, 03:03 PM   #19
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Meant 48 month lease not 48k :/
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      02-15-2013, 03:48 PM   #20
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Being able to VT the car half way through the agreement is the norm. Never knew you could change the mileage though.

I was going to say that 70mpg may be a bit optimistic but don't know that much about the 116ed and I guess if I can get 58mpg the last 2 days by driving like a granny in the 125d then I would say anything is possible. Normal business and 48mpg will be resumed by me tomorrow now that my experiment is over.
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      02-16-2013, 06:32 AM   #21
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Hello all,

Been down to the dealer this morning. Got out in an ed, lovely car, seats much more comfortable than my sport and the engine is noticeably quieter,

We did about 20 miles, i reset the MPGs before we set off, and i got 71 mpg out of it.

Sadly it was all academic, as I was way too upside down on my loan for them to close the gap with a discount.

I have a long relationship with the particular salesman I deal with, his advice was to just go do the extra miles in my current car and not worry about it, then check back in with him in 12 months and see if a deal makes more sense at that point.

It was worth the exercise to make sure I'm doing the right thing financially, but i'm sticking with my current car. Not a disappointment, its a great car!
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      02-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #22
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Quieter engine? 116i to 116ED.
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