[eluded]

[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1421...n-driver-o.gif[/IMG]

[Mr Tonka]

Relevant to new topic?

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by fravel

I'm a post-recession college grad. What is this "homeownership" you speak of?

There is actually talk of another housing crisis again due to the new grads that cant find a job that pays their college loan and house mortgage. Hence a slow down in new housing construction.

I am not sure about other areas...but there sure is a lot of apartments being built!

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

depends on what your college degree is and how you apply it. Seriously though, college degree doesn't equal guaranteed good paying job these days. People need to study what the marketplace wants. Else your college debt is bad debt. You're paying money into something that doesn't give you a return on investment.

I don't know if high school counselors or college career office are not being realistic with kids these days, but kids need to show what the payouts are per major before they make a choice.

There is no shortcut or easy street to life after college. You don't like to take engineering/accounting/science classes, then be prepared for skills and knowledge sets that's not applicable nor marketable to the employers out there.

The undergraduate business school I went to did exactly this for all undergrad business students (if you so chose to attend their seminars or go into the career counseling office for more information). They gave you a printout of all the average payouts per undergrad business degree...at the bottom of the list: Marketing, Hospitality, Entrepreneurship, Int'l Business majors, and at the top of the list: Accounting, Logistics, MIS, Finance. Any guesses on which ones are the "easier" classes to take in the undergraduate curriculum at my school? Any guess what the bulk of undergrad business students selected?

For example, Art History. I'm sure somewhere in the US, there's 2-3 teaching jobs or museum curator jobs that opens up every year that requires an art history major. But what about the 50 other art history majors in your graduating class? It's a highly competitive for those 3 jobs in this field. So if you're not the best of the best in your field of study, you're not getting that job and working as a realtor or at Starbucks and bitter at the world for misleading you.

An architect ask "what's it going to look like?"
An Accountant ask "how much is going to cost?"
An Engineer ask "How does it work?"
A Lawyer ask "is there any liability"
An Art History Major ask "Do you want fries with that?"

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by Axius

The basement I've been locked in and chained to for the past year is worth nothing. Haven't seen the light of day, being fed stale Cheez-Its and Capri Sun, and forced to watch The Goonies 24/7.

Chunk?

[fravel]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Is your name Malcolm?


I think FRAVEL needs to look at which areas in the nation have large employment opportunities for his position. Then, he needs to create a document that lists all of the attributes in those areas that he can think of and assign them a point value (weighted scale)

For example, housing cost, access to airports, access to the mountains, nightlife, outdoor activity, food scene, etc. (whatever means something to him)

If he values food more than nightlife, then food will be weighted more.

He should then go through and rank all of those cities based on the attributes that suit him best.

He may notice that the point value system will change which will ultimately help him to decide what he values taking him closer to making a decision about where to live.

Then, he should move.

I had a friend in the Bay Area who did what was mentioned above, found that a city in the Pacific North West worked best for him, sold his Bay Area home, made the move and has really enjoyed the lifestyle change.

I don't know his financial situation and I know we all have financial expenses that don't follow rational, but to be complaining about money and driving a BMW seems a bit odd.

I drive a hand me down and almost wanted to "downsize" to a $3000 civic.

To your first point, again, my situation is such that I need to secure work before I can move. Moving and then working even a part-time job while I search for a new career wouldn't be an option. Even then, the low cost-of-living here is a big part of the reason I'm able to keep up with my student loan payments. I'm reluctant to believe that a job change with this little experience would bring enough extra income to justify the cost-of-living increase. I'd likely end up with a net reduction in standard of living.

As to the 2nd point, it's cheaper to drive the car you already own, and my decade-old 3-series wasn't exactly expensive. Being able to work on your own car helps a lot, but I think you misunderstand my grievance. I'm not 'hurting for money' persay, as I live within means. I am firmly convinced my means would be much greater (and would continue to be so for 20-30 years more) had I done nearly ANYTHING constructive with my life other than financing a college education. The kids that are graduating high school today deserve to know that, and the people who are advising them need to be aware of it.

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Also, I think many people don't see how people are brainwashed into thinking that a college degree equates to success. Today's generation often expects instant results because they have grown up around instant gratification. Participate in an event, get a ribbon. Click download, photo pops up (no 56k warning needed) They think that a college degree is a hoop to jump through that will land them in opportunity which always isn't the case.

That's literally the way it was pitched to me. Get good grades in high school so you can go to a good college, get a degree to get paid. Furthermore, I was lead to believe that was my only real option at having a decent life. Again, I'm not asking for anyone to pity me or to blame my choices on someone else, I simply want people to think a little bit before they repeat the "go to college" mantra. Stop lying to high school kids who trust you enough to ask you for advice without considering the consequences.

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

this. 100% agreed.

And Bernie Sander's Free College = "$100k jobs promise" (I know, it wasn't a direct promise for jobs, but we all know it was implied) will come back and bite hard, b/c it's still the same damn reality I laid out regardless whether you get community college paid for or not:

It's all about what you study, which college you attend, how good you were in school and how good you are in employment. And how driven you are to get that next job or promotion or salary level. B/c nothing is given out for free. Nothing.

There is no easy street here. Life is hard work. Many who are successful, busted their butt in high school, to get into a difficult college, then busted their butt in college to get into the difficult field of study, then busted their butt in their field of study to not be the average student, and to stand out from their peers.

After getting a job, they then busted their butt at work, and try not to be irrelevant, and learn more stuff, and become indispensable with their employers.

Oh, in addition to executing on this plan, you still need to be able to stand in the batter's box and take a few curve balls and brush backs along the way. THAT IS HOW YOU MAKE IT. Especially if you come from nothing or humble backgrounds.

My parents and I came to this country with $100 in their pocket. Due to factors uncontrollable to them and by poor politics in the birth country, they didn't start their professions in the USA until in their 40s.

Now they're looking to retire comfortably while their son, me, am looking to figure out how to send my daughter to private school and also buy a Porsche. There's a shit ton of education, curve balls, big breaks, sweat and tears in between, but got damn it, in America, if you work smart and hard, you can make it.

That's all well and good, what I'm really trying to get people to understand is that financing a college education isn't the smart choice anymore.

[Axius]

Originally Posted by Kidscollege$

Chunk?

The truffle shuffle!

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by fravel

I'm on the backside of 28, my debt is double that (in today's dollars), and we aren't in the economic boom of the 90's. Hell, your starting salary 23 years ago was probably comparable to what mine was 20 years later! I appreciate the sentiment but the experiences of previous generations just isn't applicable today. I know it sounds like I'm just bitching, but I'm really just trying to change the perception about the "value" of college so that it lines up better with reality.

The "investment" these days is trade school, not college.

I understand what you are saying. I graduated in Civil Engineering, starting salary of $28k 20 yrs ago. back then, a college credit hour at the university was around $50/credit hour. Today, that same grad makes about $48k-$50k (midwest area) and the tuition is now $150/credit hour! College tuition has gone up 300% while starting salaries have only gone up about half that!

But, like I see in so many of new graduates...they think they are "entitled" to everything. Believe me, an engineering degree will get you WAAAAAYYYYY further in life than an art, history or womens studies...but its gotta be what you like to do.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by fravel

To your first point, again, my situation is such that I need to secure work before I can move. Moving and then working even a part-time job while I search for a new career wouldn't be an option. Even then, the low cost-of-living here is a big part of the reason I'm able to keep up with my student loan payments. I'm reluctant to believe that a job change with this little experience would bring enough extra income to justify the cost-of-living increase. I'd likely end up with a net reduction in standard of living.

As to the 2nd point, it's cheaper to drive the car you already own, and my decade-old 3-series wasn't exactly expensive. Being able to work on your own car helps a lot, but I think you misunderstand my grievance. I'm not 'hurting for money' persay, as I live within means. I am firmly convinced my means would be much greater (and would continue to be so for 20-30 years more) had I done nearly ANYTHING constructive with my life other than financing a college education. The kids that are graduating high school today deserve to know that, and the people who are advising them need to be aware of it.



That's literally the way it was pitched to me. Get good grades in high school so you can go to a good college, get a degree to get paid. Furthermore, I was lead to believe that was my only real option at having a decent life. Again, I'm not asking for anyone to pity me or to blame my choices on someone else, I simply want people to think a little bit before they repeat the "go to college" mantra. Stop lying to high school kids who trust you enough to ask you for advice without considering the consequences.



That's all well and good, what I'm really trying to get people to understand is that financing a college education isn't the smart choice anymore.

This. I didn't feed into the BS because a lot of people really have no idea what they are talking about sometimes. Be careful on who you learn and take notes from!

[Biorin]

Originally Posted by fravel

That's literally the way it was pitched to me. Get good grades in high school so you can go to a good college, get a degree to get paid. Furthermore, I was lead to believe that was my only real option at having a decent life. Again, I'm not asking for anyone to pity me or to blame my choices on someone else, I simply want people to think a little bit before they repeat the "go to college" mantra. Stop lying to high school kids who trust you enough to ask you for advice without considering the consequences.

At least you realize that. I dated someone who came out of college absolutely furious that he wasn't guaranteed a fantastic job as a result, and could do nothing more than blame society for lying to him. He felt entitled to something better - and this coming from a Classics major. Sure, we might not have been at the peak of our maturity and brilliance as we graduated high school, but the idea that attending a few classes between partying guarantees you a solid career is delusional at any age.

As an on-topic side note, I noticed a $2.5m listing in my area described as a "teardown opportunity." That sort of thing isn't too rare.

[M_Six]

The school within the university I used to work at issued Masters of Human Resources and Industrial Relations (MHRIR) degrees. If you stuck with the program, you were there for 3 semesters. The cost, IIRC, was about $23k. The had a 99% hiring rate for their grads and the average starting salary when I left was somewhere in the $72k range. Lots of kids were starting higher with bonuses. Of course you had to want to be in human resources, which isn't for everyone. But there was a degree worth the investment.

If I were just starting out now, I'd be looking at cyber-security, web programming, or cloud computing.

[EstorilM]

No house for me. Prices are getting out of hand here.

Mostly supply driven in my area, so hopefully the market will slow down/reverse soon.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Kidscollege$

An architect ask "what's it going to look like?"
An Accountant ask "how much is going to cost?"
An Engineer ask "How does it work?"
A Lawyer ask "is there any liability"
An Art History Major ask "Do you want fries with that?"

[fareast1]

This started as a stupid topic but ended up being a great discussion. Thanks!

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by supernoob

Out in lovely Vancouver Canada one can buy a 1200 sqft roach infested asbestos insulated shack for around 1.5-2 mil. And these properties sell within days of listing. These foreign investors have totally destroyed a local vancouverites ability to buy a family home. It's really kinda sad.

Toronto and the GTA isn't far behind.....we moved out of Toronto a few years back and bought a tiny fixer-upper in Oakville for about $350, I have a real estate agent telling me it's worth over $700K now.....might be time to dump and run.

[ASAP]

I don't see any options for individuals with houses over 1 billion...

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by Biorin

As an on-topic side note, I noticed a $2.5m listing in my area described as a "teardown opportunity." That sort of thing isn't too rare.

please take a photo of you for me adorning one of these:
1) a pink polo shirt with lifted color. Cream sweater cautiously draped around your shoulders
2) pink/blue/green plaid shirt (long sleeve but sleeves rolled to make 3/4 shirt) with linen colored sweater vest

Thank you..
POS work as well...

If you want to get personal PM me for my snapchat

[Biorin]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

please take a photo of you for me adorning one of these:
1) a pink polo shirt with lifted color. Cream sweater cautiously draped around your shoulders
2) pink/blue/green plaid shirt (long sleeve but sleeves rolled to make 3/4 shirt) with linen colored sweater vest

Thank you..
POS work as well...

If you want to get personal PM me for my snapchat

Incredibly tempting offer, but as I'm not originally from here and therefore don't own anything from Vineyard Vines/Lily Pulitzer/Tory Burch, I will sadly have to decline.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Biorin

Incredibly tempting offer, but as I'm not originally from here and therefore don't own anything from Vineyard Vines/Lily Pulitzer/Tory Burch, I will sadly have to decline.

Do you like Pina Coladas? Or getting caught in the rain?

[08njSTEP]

Fravel's realization is nothing new. I went to college in late '80s-early '90s. At that time every senior was committed to a starting wage of $50k. It didn't happen. A lot of those grads moved back into their parents basement. It is certainly true that cost of education has gotten very high and that schools have found a gravy train called student loans. Something must change before the cost of school eclipses the earning power of the graduates first decade of employment. This is almost the case currently with some degrees. A major contributing factor is the economic shift towards service industries as the engine of the economy. How we change that is a real puzzle.

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Do you like Pina Coladas? Or getting caught in the rain?

Please tell me you are referencing a country song.

Biorin thanks for letting me down. At least lie to me. This is the internet...

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't see any options for individuals with houses over 1 billion...

Yeah apparently 12 people have house's worth 100+ million...