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      10-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #23
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What about 118i?
I am wondering to hear about 118i performance on dyno..
Because i am planning to upgrade Ecu software of 116i to 118i somehow ( with box or evotech software ) so i am really interested in stock 118i performance on dyno..
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      10-20-2012, 10:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corail View Post
What about 118i?
I am wondering to hear about 118i performance on dyno..
Because i am planning to upgrade Ecu software of 116i to 118i somehow ( with box or evotech software ) so i am really interested in stock 118i performance on dyno..
"In 2011 BMW released turbocharged 1.6 Prince engine [8] (called the N18 engine for the Mini Cooper S and called the N13 engine for BMW applications)"
Cooper S is underrated, and so is the big brother "John Cooper works".
328 and 335 both share the N20. Both of them or underrated.

I see no reason why the 118I should not be underrated in about the same way as all the others.
Seems like all BMWs twinscroll engines are underrated.

You already have 116I and Cooper S dyno results. You do the visualizing of the 118I. Im guessing Cooper S have 2-5% less drivetrain compared to a RWD car..
BMW 116I : 136hp@4400rpm - 220nm @1350-4300rpm (129g CO2)
BMW 118I: 170hp@4800rpm - 250nm@1500-4500rpm (134g CO2)
Cooper S: 184hp@5500rpm - 240nm@1600-5000rpm (136g CO2)

Ofcourse, would be nice to see real dyno, or hear from people who have tested both 116I and 118I.
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      10-23-2012, 11:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-RaceR View Post
"In 2011 BMW released turbocharged 1.6 Prince engine [8] (called the N18 engine for the Mini Cooper S and called the N13 engine for BMW applications)"
Cooper S is underrated, and so is the big brother "John Cooper works".
328 and 335 both share the N20. Both of them or underrated.

I see no reason why the 118I should not be underrated in about the same way as all the others.
Seems like all BMWs twinscroll engines are underrated.

You already have 116I and Cooper S dyno results. You do the visualizing of the 118I. Im guessing Cooper S have 2-5% less drivetrain compared to a RWD car..
BMW 116I : 136hp@4400rpm - 220nm @1350-4300rpm (129g CO2)
BMW 118I: 170hp@4800rpm - 250nm@1500-4500rpm (134g CO2)
Cooper S: 184hp@5500rpm - 240nm@1600-5000rpm (136g CO2)

Ofcourse, would be nice to see real dyno, or hear from people who have tested both 116I and 118I.

Extremely underrated. I recently tuned a friend's 118i via an RPM based tuning box. Here are the before / after results:




Note that the Power figure captured is the estimated HP at the crank. On wheel there is an estimated transmission loss of 15%. Torque NM figure remains the same.

As you can see, even before tuning, the stock engine produced a staggering 320nm peak torque, abeit at a higher RPM. After the tune, we improved the peak torque to 360nm and smoothened out the curve considerably.
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      10-24-2012, 01:49 AM   #26
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Looks like it has around 185 flywheel hp in stock form, which should equal 157 hp at the wheels.

My 116i had 139 wheel hp versus 136 flywheel hp on paper.
The 118i has 157 wheel hp versus 170 flywheel hp on paper.

Looks like the 118i is a lot less underrated than the 116i.
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      10-24-2012, 08:02 AM   #27
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Nice numbers!
I like the HP curve at the top end.

But where is all the low down torque?? (below 3000rpm)
That dyno looks weird compared to the 118I and Cooper S... Or the character of the engine in terms of torque, but also a little in terms of low down hp.
Im guessing it is the dyno not showing the proper numbers at the lower RPMs???

Do you know how the car feel below 3000 RPM?
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      10-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-RaceR View Post
Nice numbers!
I like the HP curve at the top end.

But where is all the low down torque?? (below 3000rpm)
That dyno looks weird compared to the 118I and Cooper S... Or the character of the engine in terms of torque, but also a little in terms of low down hp.
Im guessing it is the dyno not showing the proper numbers at the lower RPMs???

Do you know how the car feel below 3000 RPM?
Yes its alot better than it looks. You start feeling alot of pull from 2000rpm onwards. Its just that the dyno only starts capturing data from 2000rpm onwards (3rd gear) so the readings are somewhat delayed. Peak torque and HP are valid. Btw, these figures are what's captured AT THE WHEEL HUB itself. So what you're looking at is in fact power at the wheel hub, not flywheel power.

Its a dynapack so we take off the wheels and attach the dynapacks to the rear wheel hub. The only different difference between the dynapack and a rolling dyno is tire-friction loss (which depending on the condition of the tire, makes it less consistent in a minor way).

Here's another interesting tidbit - various driving modes (eco-pro, comfort, sport) come with their own maps. We tested on sport mode and the difference compared to comfort mode was around +5hp.
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      10-24-2012, 12:11 PM   #29
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Great
Now i am awaiting a safe tuning software to power up my 116i..
It seems that,it wouldn't be so hard to track and beat an 320d with a tuned&upgrated 170-180 ps 116i
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      10-24-2012, 12:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singsider View Post
Extremely underrated. I recently tuned a friend's 118i via an RPM based tuning box. Here are the before / after results:




Note that the Power figure captured is the estimated HP at the crank. On wheel there is an estimated transmission loss of 15%. Torque NM figure remains the same.
I made a mistake earlier by saying that the above is the estimated hp at the crank. It is in fact the power at the wheel hub. As you can see, the green box says "power". This is different from Power (Flywheel) as seen below. I was working on another F20 118i (base-run), and its power at flywheel was around 221hp. So at 15% transmission loss, that's around 192hp at the wheel.


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      10-24-2012, 12:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corail View Post
Great
Now i am awaiting a safe tuning software to power up my 116i..
It seems that,it wouldn't be so hard to track and beat an 320d with a tuned&upgrated 170-180 ps 116i
At the moment, a good tuning box seems the way to go. I'm waiting for an OBD solution as well, as soon as they have a tuning protocol and a way to beat the ecu protection in place. Bench tuning is also an option if a tuning protocol for this ecu is available. If successful, any 116i could in theory become a 118i, since everything except the intercooler is identical to the 118i.
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      10-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #32
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@singsider
Intercooler of both 116i and 118i should be the same?
There was a topic about this issue and in this topic they compared of all major parts such as turbo,intercooler,gearbox,clutch etc..
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      10-24-2012, 01:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singsider View Post
. If successful, any 116i could in theory become a 118i, since everything except the intercooler is identical to the 118i.
In Europe I believe even the intercoolers are the same (Lower ambient temperatures than Singapore), the only difference being a small front exhaust section. £300 from BMW.

Someone has also suggested the engine's main internals are the same as the Mini Cooper S.

So when the tuners start to remap the 116i big gains should be safely available.

Cheers
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      10-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #34
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I think the intercooler is the same, but the turbo downpipe is different.
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      10-24-2012, 07:53 PM   #35
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Thanks for sharing those dyno results Singsider.

From what you say you have had two different 118I on the dyno.
One had about 211HP the flywheel.
The other had about 180-185 at the wheels. Which is roughly the same..

If that is the case, then we basically have two cars two verify that the 118I have about 180hp at the wheels, stock!
That is not just impressive, it is pretty insane!!
Singsider, just wondering. How would you say other cars (and brands) do in stock form on that dyno in comparison with the 118I? Just wondering since that 118I have have about 25% more power than paper BMW says on the paper.


BMW 116I on paper: 136HP. Flywheel-HP about 164. 20,5% More HP than it should have
BMW 118I on paper: 170HP. Flywheel-HP about 211. 24,1% More HP than it should have.
Cooper S on paper: 184HP. Flywheel-HP about 195HP. 6% More HP than it should have.

All cars have a huge amount of extra torque compared to what they are rated for!

I need to get a testdrive in F20 118I when I can find one.. Compare it to my Cooper S. If 118I performs as good as these numbers say it should have about the same acceleration as my Cooper S.

Q1- How can BMW underrate their cars that much?? (Im not complaining! In Norway we have HP taxes among others)
Q2- How can a 116I become a 118I?
Q3- What about getting 118I performance from a 114I?
Q4- When looking at ECU tuning there is typically about 10-20% more power to be gained from stock depending on where you are looking at the power curves. (some places uses higher numbers for turbo engines) That percentage is usually the same when starting on a 114I, 116I or a 118I.. Why?

Read a Norwegian review of the 114I. They said the engine was surprisingly strong for its numbers.... I wonder why.. ;p
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      10-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-RaceR View Post
Q1- How can BMW underrate their cars that much?? (Im not complaining! In Norway we have HP taxes among others)
Q2- How can a 116I become a 118I?
Q3- What about getting 118I performance from a 114I?
Q4- When looking at ECU tuning there is typically about 10-20% more power to be gained from stock depending on where you are looking at the power curves. (some places uses higher numbers for turbo engines) That percentage is usually the same when starting on a 114I, 116I or a 118I.. Why?

Read a Norwegian review of the 114I. They said the engine was surprisingly strong for its numbers.... I wonder why.. ;p
Although I think the dyno graphs above are a bit on the unreliable side I'll try and answer the questions.

A1- They need to clearly define outputs and price points hence 75kw, 100kw, 125kw, for the 114i, 116i and 118i, all outputs derived from an engine which is only a little different than the Cooper S.

A-2 By changing a £300 downpipe and loading the same map as a 118i into the 116i's ECU

A-3 I don't think anyone has checked part numbers on the 114i yet, it may have a smaller turbo. Can't see it though it's cheaper just to build one engine and sell it at differing power outputs.

A-4 Tuning boxes do not alter the engine map they just change the inputs into the ecu so a percentage gain is all they can do. A proper remap should give the same results on a 116i with down pipe and a 118i, probably pushing towards 200bhp.

Cheers
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      10-25-2012, 10:05 PM   #37
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Thanks!

114I have the same turbo as the 118I.
But I did not compare many other parts.
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      10-26-2012, 01:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singsider View Post
I made a mistake earlier by saying that the above is the estimated hp at the crank. It is in fact the power at the wheel hub. As you can see, the green box says "power". This is different from Power (Flywheel) as seen below. I was working on another F20 118i (base-run), and its power at flywheel was around 221hp. So at 15% transmission loss, that's around 192hp at the wheel.
Question for Singsider: Was the engine completely broken-in?

If the dyno results can be verified, I believe that the results you got are probably a "worst-case" scenario, since it was performed in Singapore, a location with hot and humid conditions, meaning the air is significantly less dense than low temperature and humidity conditions, where one would expect power and torque figures to be even higher still.
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      10-29-2012, 07:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singsider View Post
I made a mistake earlier by saying that the above is the estimated hp at the crank. It is in fact the power at the wheel hub. As you can see, the green box says "power". This is different from Power (Flywheel) as seen below. I was working on another F20 118i (base-run), and its power at flywheel was around 221hp. So at 15% transmission loss, that's around 192hp at the wheel.


hey, Singsider, would you mind telling me if the 118i in those figure was the 6MT or the 8AT? Pretty impressive stuff!

Cheers!
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      09-25-2015, 05:27 AM   #40
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Taking a chance on this old tread.
I have a 114i m-sport.
Upgrades ongoing; now a Milltek exhaust is ordered, and the next step is to send the ECU to ESS for a 218hp / 365nm upgrade.

Now the exhaust I have bought is a cat-back. Do I need to upgrade the downpipe, or is it the same as the 118i`s?

Is the original intercooler sufficient, er should one upgrade it for full utilization of the other upgrades?
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      09-25-2015, 05:40 AM   #41
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I think the downpipe is different between the 114i/116i and the 118i.
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      09-25-2015, 07:48 AM   #42
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Ok, just did a check on realom (which I should have done in the first place).
Precatalyst and exhaust has the same # in 114-116. Up to 118 the precatalyst stays the same, only the pre-cat exhaust changes in diameter. Gearbox and clutch the same in all.
The check was done on 2013/6 models.
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      09-25-2015, 08:52 AM   #43
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The brake size is also different between the models.
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      09-25-2015, 09:41 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissM_83 View Post
the next step is to send the ECU to ESS for a 218hp / 365nm upgrade.

Now the exhaust I have bought is a cat-back. Do I need to upgrade the downpipe, or is it the same as the 118i`s?
Why 118i? Those are 125i's characteristics, actually.
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