[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by AusF20

Firstly, you should not assume that you are the only expert or have the most experience.
Some of us have also raced open wheel and rally.

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm
YOU STILL NEED TO TURN A STEERING WHEEL TO EFECT THE PRIMARY CHANGE IN DIRECTION
even if it is only by small increments
I would never rely on 'self centering' of the steering and wheel position when pushing any car hard though a corner. Or is that just us OLD SCHOOL types

I don't see myself as an expert, but I know I can do a series of corners without turning the steering wheel into the corners, as I have done it a lot of times. That proves you wrong. It IS possible by pendulum turn and throttle control. If you have been rallying, I am surprised you don't know this, as it is a rather common trick.

I see most racing and rally drivers seem to drive without ever changing hand grips now. I used to have a marker on top of my steering wheel back in the days with 4 turns L2L, but I don't miss it now.

[AusF20/F48]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I don't see myself as an expert, but I know I can do a series of corners without turning the steering wheel into the corners, as I have done it a lot of times. That proves you wrong. It IS possible by pendulum turn and throttle control. If you have been rallying, I am surprised you don't know this, as it is a rather common trick.

I see most racing and rally drivers seem to drive without ever changing hand grips now. I used to have a marker on top of my steering wheel back in the days with 4 turns L2L, but I don't miss it now.

You missed my point

In my original reply, I said I could not see the point of the M Wheel. This is getting off track.
BTW Even in a pendulum 'turn' you have to initiate it with bias on the wheel. So my point holds true. If you apply any movement on the wheel it is still considered as 'turn of the wheel' (simple physics)

My comment was in reply to you comment that the steering wheel was always in the straight on position during hard cornering.

You rally and race, you know that it not the case when corning hard as there is the need to constantly correct the steering for the road conditions.
The need for less steering movement on a track is agreed.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by AusF20

You missed my point

In my original reply, I said I could not see the point of the M Wheel. This is getting off track.
BTW Even in a pendulum 'turn' you have to initiate it with bias on the wheel. So my point holds true. If you apply any movement on the wheel it is still considered as 'turn of the wheel' (simple physics)

My comment was in reply to you comment that the steering wheel was always in the straight on position during hard cornering.

You rally and race, you know that it not the case when corning hard as there is the need to constantly correct the steering for the road conditions.
The need for less steering movement on a track is agreed.

My point was that the steering CAN be straight during cornering, and even turning into a corner, in a series of corners. And the cornering is usually at the hardest when the steering is pointing straight. There will of course be continuous corrections around center, but usually no need to change grips, so no need for the straight-marker on top of the steering wheel.

Illustration of a car cornering hard, with all wheels pointing into the corner at the same angle:

[ttimbo]

Perhaps not the best example, as the rear of that air-cooled 911 would have started moving to the outside of the corner the very moment the driver lifted off the throttle before entry. In fact, almost all the cornering effort of that type of car is achieved by throttle control

A good friend of mine used to describe the effect, jokingly, thus: "you hold the wheel to keep yourself in the seat, and use your feet to get around the corner". It's not far from the truth ....for that type of car.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by ttimbo

Perhaps not the best example, as the rear of that air-cooled 911 would have started moving to the outside of the corner the very moment the driver lifted off the throttle before entry. In fact, almost all the cornering effort of that type of car is achieved by throttle control

A good friend of mine used to describe the effect, jokingly, thus: "you hold the wheel to keep yourself in the seat, and use your feet to get around the corner". It's not far from the truth ....for that type of car.

I know. The older BMWs like the E30 were also very sensitive to throttle inputs. It required constant working with the pedals to balance it through the corners. That is why it was very difficult to drive fast with laggy turbo modifications.

The F20/F21 is not very throttle sensitive in corners. It pretty much corners on rails.

[AusF20/F48]

Ah, the joys of simple physics at work. Nice pic
Like I said, I cannot see the point of the M wheel