[lemetier]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

There is since 2009, but the ones there now were apparently grandfathered in.

They've also been revised again in the past 7 years. Soon the FTC will decide to pursue action to federally regulate what limitations states can enact upon auto dealer organizations. The current setup is absurd and only fed by dealer lobby interests. Consumer Interests are not at play and in fact are harmed in states where manufacturers/distributors/representatives involvements are restricted or banned.

Texas is the worst of them all. Their laws state no manufacturer or a distributor may have an interest in any new car dealer, but the second largest Toyota Distributor owns a number of dealerships and pumps millions of dollars each year into Republican PAC's to fight off Tesla yet is in violation of the regulations themselves.

[SCOTT26]

I think its owned by BMW North America.

[SCOTT26]

I will find out properly as I am in route to Beijing.

Some People here are not going to like what we will reveal on Monday.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I will find out properly as I am in route to Beijing.

Some People here are not going to like what we will reveal on Monday.

Intriguing!

Thanks Scott

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I will find out properly as I am in route to Beijing.

Some People here are not going to like what we will reveal on Monday.

are you going to reveal the secret of how they get the caramel inside a Cadbury's Caramilk bar?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I will find out properly as I am in route to Beijing.

Some People here are not going to like what we will reveal on Monday.

Left foot won't have anyone to play with anymore huh?

[Weaselboy]

Post #14 in this thread is from a CA working there and he says it is factory owned.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=895896

[Weaselboy]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I will find out properly as I am in route to Beijing.

Some People here are not going to like what we will reveal on Monday.

Now you have my attention.

[MRCUR]

I'd love to know how much (if at all) they'll negotiate being owned by BMW.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

I'd love to know how much (if at all) they'll negotiate being owned by BMW.

Probably not much, but might make buying new M models ED and special order easier via email ... but they probably just operate like a worse than average dealership. The benefit would be the liability I suppose ....

Originally Posted by Weaselboy

Post #14 in this thread is from a CA working there and he says it is factory owned.

Yup I think we've pretty much established that, especially given that's what our BMW AG insider SCOTT26 and total fucking genius miamiten says ... but "factory owned" is a bit of an odd term, at least for me since:

(1.) BMW North America owns BMW of Manhattan

(2.) BMW North America is the "manager" of BMW Manufacturing Company, which makes the X5 & X6

(3.) BWW North America imports BMW AG vehicles like M cars from BMW AG

or something.



Anyway - very special thanks miamiten for dropping some serious knowledge bombs. Super interesting to me - any more you'd like to say about the history of the Max Hoffman network would be fascinating!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

I'd love to know how much (if at all) they'll negotiate being owned by BMW.

The chances of getting a "better deal" are actually less at BMW of Manhattan compared to another dealer within the NYC market area. It is still a separate company with its own management structure and has to perform just like any other franchise dealer. But there is also a cost incurred on every new vehicle transaction that is completely unique to that specific dealership. There is no direct operating influence between BMW of Manhattan and BMWNA/BMWAG/BMWGroup that isn't present with every franchise dealer in the country. What does exist at BMW of Manhattan and 2 other US Franchise Dealers, is the management of VIP Client Relationships and their often unique requests. The capabilities are not limited to these 3 dealerships and doesn't mean every request is fulfilled, but they have a dedicated representative/department solely for this purpose.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by miamiten

What does exist at BMW of Manhattan and 2 other US Franchise Dealers, is the management of VIP Client Relationships and their often unique requests.

Which 2 others???

[trey100]

I thought I read somewhere that they are operated by Open Road BMW?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yup I think we've pretty much established that, especially given that's what our BMW AG insider SCOTT26 and total fucking genius miamiten says ... but "factory owned" is a bit of an odd term, at least for me since:

(1.) BMW North America owns BMW of Manhattan

(2.) BMW North America is the "manager" of BMW Manufacturing Company, which makes the X5 & X6

(3.) BWW North America imports BMW AG vehicles like M cars from BMW AG

or something.



Anyway - very special thanks miamiten for dropping some serious knowledge bombs. Super interesting to me - any more you'd like to say about the history of the Max Hoffman network would be fascinating!

Haha...I'll happily accept a fucking genius compliment any day. I honestly appreciate it more than I'm able to express in a reply here. I'm a complete pain in the ass to work with, as I'm always 2 miles ahead of everyone and typically in a position where people are faced with a sudden risk to job security. Personal praise is a rarity and more often than not, overcome by the stress. Compartmentalization is a difficult psychological trait to possess and utilize. My very first job was at a BMW dealership when I was 16 and worked under the table. Had it not been the 9 hour wait for management/legal to determine they could legally contract with an "emancipated minor" and I not spent time chatting with people and selling 11 cars for them that day, I never would have entered the Auto Biz. When my racing career was cut short, I went to Real Estate and Venture Capital which ended up bringing me back into the Auto Retail Sector. My initial experience kept me from dismissing retention of that portion of the investment and I continue to go in and out of dealer ops to this day. The link above mentions "corporate" placing someone at struggling or transitioning stores to act as a GM or Dealer Principal. I'm one of those guys. I enjoy the challenge...just not constantly...same as with my other professional investments. It wasn't easy finding a portfolio that cycles well and has taken a couple of decades to achieve. I wouldn't do it any other way though.


Corporate Structure is intentionally made difficult to rationalize and understand. Without formal education or frequent experience that requires someone to be familiar with the system from all angles, it would be irrational and confusing without a doubt. Even for professionals, the introduction of inconsistent governing concerning Empirical Evidence/Public Policy and regulated Vertical Restraints/Contract Law makes it exponentially more difficult.

Max Hoffman's legacy is deserving of its own thread in my opinion. Not only for how he shaped the entire North American Automotive Retail Market, but for how how he defined the European Brands as we know them; BMW most of all. If it weren't for him, BMW probably wouldn't exist today as an independent let alone the massive Group it has become.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Which 2 others???

Beverly Hills BMW and Braman Motorcars in South Florida. The latter is relatively new, inefficient, and mis-managed (the whole dealer group is a clusterfuck on its own). All 3 (4 if the two stacked Market Area Braman Stores are separated) work in conjunction with a BMWGroup management office here in the US that handles VIP/Press/PR Vehicle Management for several countries in North and South America. Every Luxury Brand has a similar system in place so it isn't unique to BMWGroup. It's also not something 99.9% of the members here would qualify for, is not capable of much volume, nor would it be attractive as it entails significant expense or ROI.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by trey100

I thought I read somewhere that they are operated by Open Road BMW?

Franchise Operating Contracts are an entirely different spectrum. I'm not implying that is the case here, but that scenario does exist.

Over the entire course of automobile history, direct manufacturer to consumer retail dealerships/sales have been the exception to the norm. It's capital intensive and inefficient use of it. The US Big 4 (GM, Ford, Chrysler, AMC) actually tried to do this in the 1960's at the suggestion of a young guy in GM's European Division by the name of Bob Lutz. Lobbyists fought back, states formed auto dealer franchise regulations, and this gentleman soon found himself on his ass without a job, forced to find employment with a European based company. He pushed a small German manufacturer, BMW, to restructure its domestic retail network based on this concept. When it came to the US market, he battled with "Maxie" and the doo doo hit the fan. Lutzie boy did some very unethical things and cost BMW a small fortune (and continues to pay every day on every car sold in the US). Although BMW became wildly successful in the USA during Lutz's tenure, he's often given a bit too much personal credit for what really was his giving in to Hoffman's demands. Back in Germany, BMW and Daimler-Benz (who began to follow BMW's domestic retail lead) eventually realized that the Hoffman model was more cost effective but Daimler reacted much sooner and was able to divest the majority of these these capital intensive dealerships in Germany. BMW held on and still struggles to divest the last remaining burdensome but essential dealerships. US auto makers perceived BMW's success as being a direct result of Lutz's professional decisions and was able to return to their good graces.

[MRCUR]

Thanks very much miamiten for the huge amount of info. How dealerships operate and how they work with manufacturers is extremely fascinating to me, so your posts have been very insightful.

[rr006rbc]

It is 1000000% owned by BMW of North America. The only one in the states like that.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

Thanks very much miamiten for the huge amount of info. How dealerships operate and how they work with manufacturers is extremely fascinating to me, so your posts have been very insightful.

As much as I've "shared", it's still just a scratch of the surface. What seems recent but was in fact a while back, myself and several friends who were working in various areas of the auto industry, devised a plan after dinner one evening to create a map so to speak, of how to restructure the entire system. It took years to do, was more complex than the existing setups, taking into account every facet; from suppliers to manufacturers to dealers, regulatory bodies between, all the way down to the detailers and porters. It's modular and adaptable to account for every possible scenario imaginable. There was however a singular point (the point of failure to me) at which this system in its entirety could be the most efficient. That point did occur, but trying to change something as old, diverse, and complex as the supplier/manufacturer/distributor/retail/aftersales network in such a short window was impossible; an impossibility we kept relevant during the design. This structure is in place and will continue to grow, but the scenario to best serve everyone, including consumers, will hopefully never occur again.

What's more interesting, and relevant to this specific topic, is this dealership's history and the person behind it.

Max Hoffman was a true visionary, tactical entrepreneur, and automotive enthusiast. He was also a complete nightmare to work with. His input, and often times, unwavering demands didn't always lead to financial success for those entities at the other end. They unquestionably were always influential and defining though. It gives credence to the saying "there's three sides to every story".

When it comes to BMW, Hoffman's suggestions both nearly took down the company and equally brought it to life. The 507 (and 503), which he had more of a hand in than BMW themselves, took the company to within a knifes edge of being wiped out entirely. He also laid the ground work for what would become ///M. He solely requested a big motor version of the E6's and the Bavaria was born. This concept of a sportier, high power version of standard production versions was not on the horizon for BMW product planners. What followed from there were the 2002, the car that made BMW and might not have made it past the proposed 1802 version of the 1602, 3.0CsL, 2002turbo, and E12 M535i. The 3 Series, specifically the E21, which Lutz is often praised for, was developed before his arrival at BMW. The E21 portfolio was revised and launched at almost the exact moment Hoffman and BMW parted ways. It wasn't as successful as hoped in comparison to the 2002, and it along with Lutz were short lived. The E30 came along and went back to the philosophy that Hoffman insisted on. The rest is history.

Without Hoffman, there never would have been a Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing, Porsche wouldn't have it's crest (or possibly even the 356 if Max Hoffmann, Otto Fuchs, and Josef Ganz not driven to France one evening in 1941), Volkswagen wouldn't exist at all, Alfa Romeo wouldn't have the Spyder, Frank Lloyd Wright wouldn't be as well known, and the Guggenheim in NYC wouldn't look the way it does. It's an 80 year old relationship that even WW2 and global evolution couldn't break.

[JerryK73]

Growing up as a kid I remember when it was a Ford dealership. My fomer brother-in-law's brother used to own the Mobil station that was on the property back then.