[antzcrashing]

Dear car enthusiasts, please keep buying manual transmission cars so BMW has to keep making them. Dont want them to go away in M3 M4 cars

[Bokke]

If the cost difference was "zero" between a manual and DCT, the take rate of the MT on the M3/M4 would be a lot lower in the US! Just say'n....

[N & M]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Not long ago, spokespeople from the M division said: there won't be AWD M cars. Now they say there won't be FWD M cars...

But let's see what happens in the future.

I'm sure that the next M2 will be based on the Mini/1 Series FWD platform and will have FWD based AWD with a transverse turbo 2 liter 4 cylinder.... BMW will have copied Mercedes and their AMG 45...

When this happens, it will be the beginning of the end for the M division...

Mark my words.

I agree with you mate up to the point where it signals the end of the M division bit. There are some nice drives out there today using that configuration. M is can adapt to this and still be fun and driver focused. You can even dial in drifts and wheel spin these days.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by N & M

I agree with you mate up to the point where it signals the end of the M division bit. There are some nice drives out there today using that configuration. M is can adapt to this and still be fun and driver focused. You can even dial in drifts and wheel spin these days.

I had a 205 GTI 1.9 in my teenage years and know a bit about lift off oversteer. I've driven the Megane Rs too. All I have to say is that even though these cars are fun to drive, they don't hold a candle to a proper set up RWD For driving pleasure. For example even a GT86 or a base Boxster is more rewarding to drive in my opinion and it has nothing to do about performance.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Will be an XDrive M35i same as the incoming X1/X2 and Chinese made 1er Sedan.

So this is the last generation of RWD hot hatch...

Thanks for the info. I'm curious then as to how the next gen xdrive transverse model will behave. BMW joining the the likes of Audi, Ford, Mercedes and Volkswagen in their approach to hot hatches.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Bokke

If the cost difference was "zero" between a manual and DCT, the take rate of the MT on the M3/M4 would be a lot lower in the US! Just say'n....

I strongly doubt it would have much effect on the already slowly but surely diminishing manual transmission take rate. Most people choose the manual transmission because they like to use a clutch pedal and H-gate, not because it saves them a few percent on the overall price of the car.

Originally Posted by clbmw

I'm curious then as to how the next gen xdrive transverse model will behave. BMW joining the the likes of Audi, Ford, Mercedes and Volkswagen in their approach to hot hatches.

You won't have to wait very long since the M135i xDrive sedan should be dropping soon (this year) in China. It will essentially preview what to expect performance wise from the next 1 Series hatchback duo in M Performance trim. The X1/X2 M35i xDrive will be the closest we get for now in the US, but eventually I suspect we'll see a 4 (or maybe 5) door passenger car using this platform/drivetrain combo.

I have a feeling that these products are going to be quite good. I suspect that when the trade press begins to measure then up against the Audi and Mercedes equivalents, BMW will be very much in the game. We can expect that BMW will have done their homework since they are keenly aware that losing the unique RWD layout vs. the competition means they have to step it up in other areas to keep reviewers from evaluating them purely through hate colored goggles.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

You won't have to wait very long since the M135i xDrive sedan should be dropping soon (this year) in China. It will essentially preview what to expect performance wise from the next 1 Series hatchback duo in M Performance trim. The X1/X2 M35i xDrive will be the closest we get for now in the US, but eventually I suspect we'll see a 4 (or maybe 5) door passenger car using this platform/drivetrain combo.

I have a feeling that these cars are going to be quite good. I suspect that when the trade press begins to measure then up against the Audi and Mercedes equivalents, BMW will be very much in the game. We can expect that BMW will have done their homework since they are keenly aware that losing the unique RWD layout vs. the competition means they have to step it up in other areas to keep reviewers from evaluating them purely through hate colored goggles.

Shame to lose the USP of RWD but the competition is fierce in this segment both in performance and price. The M135i/40i has always done well but never comes out top in group tests.

Reckon it'll retain the 6 pot? Or is 35 now meaning "2 litre" ?!
That would be a big loss

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by adc

American muscle doesn't really sell in Europe, or the rest of the world for that matter. The M3 was/is primarily engineered so it can be sold in Europe and Germany first, the USA second. In Europe, emissions do count.

The biggest issue I have with the M division, by far, is that they are not building a halo car a la R8. If they did, more people would take notice, and people like me would have an aspirational model up. As it stands, my aspirational models are Porsches and Ferraris, really sad. And not good for the brand, because if people start switching it's hard to get them back...

American muscle mY start selling well in Europe due to certain factors. If I am not correct, the Mustang is the best Selina sports car/sporty car in Germany.

[jpnh]

Did everyone miss the part of the article where van Meer said FWD M-car is "out of the question."?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by clbmw

Reckon it'll retain the 6 pot? Or is 35 now meaning "2 litre" ?! That would be a big loss

It will definitely be a new high output B48. UKL vehicles only use three-cylinder or four-cylinder engines.

Originally Posted by jpnh

Did everyone miss the part of the article where van Meer said FWD M-car is "out of the question."?

I don't think I've seen any posts in this thread where that point appears to have been missed. Which ones did you see?

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It will definitely be a new high output B48. UKL vehicles only use three-cylinder or four-cylinder engines.

Worth keeping hold of the current M135i me thinks

[eau_rouge]

I highly doubt the 20% 6MT takerate for the M2. I think it has to be much higher, that is at least my impression when lurking around forums (bimmerpost and german forums)

[MalibuBimmer]

Stick v. auto

My Father bought a 1971 2800CSA, the "A" denoting is was a slushbox. I had been driving a Merc stick (a 1970 280SL), but I liked his BMW so much I first bought a used Bavaria (with the 2.8 litre engine) and then a new 3.0CS, both with stick.

The automatic in my Father's car was very weak and had all of the characteristics we hate in spades. My Bavaria and 3.0CS were lightening quick and the stick shift (a ZF if I remember correctly) was a pleasure to drive. I kept the CS for 29 years. After a couple of years I knew the transmission so well that I could and did shift and rev matched in every gear without the clutch after I got it rolling.

My next 3 Bimmers were also sticks. But then I started to get old and soft. I went back to the dark side and bought a series of big Merc coupes. They were only offered in America with the slushbox.

In 2005 a friend let me drive his new M3 cabriolet and I really enjoyed the engine and the music it made, but boy was that clutch heavy! So I ordered a 650i cab -- with steptronic -- and came back fully to the brand. The next year I bought an M6 cab with SMG, which was a big mistake. I should have tried an M5 or M6 with stick, but there were none available. I had gone to the California Speedway in Irwindale for an M experience (then available to all 650 owners), but all of those cars were SMG, too.

A couple of years after I got my M6 BMW was sponsoring some M event in Thousand Oaks or Newbury Park and I went and drove an M3 cab (in the same Interlagos Blue color as my M6) and it had DCT. With rev holding and rev matching it really reminded me of the fun I had in the 3.0CS. So I got a Z4 with DCT and now my M4 with DCT. What is interesting is that the DCT tranny is quicker than the stick with slightly better 0-60 times.

I understand why people want to keep the manual transmission alive, but as you get older (I'm 71 now -- and my Dad is 99 and I made him stop driving), that damn third pedal starts to get stiff. So, for me, DCT is a good compromise.

But I hope BMW continues to make manual transmissions. Until, of course, we are completely electrified.

[Law]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Stick v. auto

My Father bought a 1971 2800CSA, the "A" denoting is was a slushbox. I had been driving a Merc stick (a 1970 280SL), but I liked his BMW so much I first bought a used Bavaria (with the 2.8 litre engine) and then a new 3.0CS, both with stick.

The automatic in my Father's car was very weak and had all of the characteristics we hate in spades. My Bavaria and 3.0CS were lightening quick and the stick shift (a ZF if I remember correctly) was a pleasure to drive. I kept the CS for 29 years. After a couple of years I knew the transmission so well that I could and did shift and rev matched in every gear without the clutch after I got it rolling.

My next 3 Bimmers were also sticks. But then I started to get old and soft. I went back to the dark side and bought a series of big Merc coupes. They were only offered in America with the slushbox.

In 2005 a friend let me drive his new M3 cabriolet and I really enjoyed the engine and the music it made, but boy was that clutch heavy! So I ordered a 650i cab -- with steptronic -- and came back fully to the brand. The next year I bought an M6 cab with SMG, which was a big mistake. I should have tried an M5 or M6 with stick, but there were none available. I had gone to the California Speedway in Irwindale for an M experience (then available to all 650 owners), but all of those cars were SMG, too.

A couple of years after I got my M6 BMW was sponsoring some M event in Thousand Oaks or Newbury Park and I went and drove an M3 cab (in the same Interlagos Blue color as my M6) and it had DCT. With rev holding and rev matching it really reminded me of the fun I had in the 3.0CS. So I got a Z4 with DCT and now my M4 with DCT. What is interesting is that the DCT tranny is quicker than the stick with slightly better 0-60 times.

I understand why people want to keep the manual transmission alive, but as you get older (I'm 71 now -- and my Dad is 99 and I made him stop driving), that damn third pedal starts to get stiff. So, for me, DCT is a good compromise.

But I hope BMW continues to make manual transmissions. Until, of course, we are completely electrified.

Excellent post. A lot of younger folks (myself included) will often say that they can pry the manual transmission out of "my cold, dead hands".
While I do intend on driving stick for as long as I physically can, I also realize I won't truly understand the limitations of age until I am there.
For the physically competent, the manual transmission is still offers the most honest and emotional connection to a car.

Luckily for you & others, the DCT is an excellent transmission. Can't say the same about SMG, but I see it as BMW's "trial & error" stage. We wouldn't have DCT today without [BMW] learning from the mistakes and mishaps of SMG.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Law

A lot of younger folks (myself included) will often say that they can pry the manual transmission out of "my cold, dead hands".

I dunno. I don't see many "younger" folks that CAN drive sticks here in Murica. In fact, I don't see ANYONE younger than 40 that drives stick and drive it well.

There's a meme going around about the stick being the millennial "anti-theft" device:



It has more than just a hint of truth to it. I hear old farts like me talking about "prying the stick out of my dead, cold hands" than I see young 'ems say that. I don't think them millennials care about being "engaged" with their cars.

[nicknaz]

It would be nice of BMW made an updated version of the E86 Z4M

My F80 was a lot of fun, for a sedan, but the 2 seater sports cars are still more fun due to the sense of occasion from the low seating position, and lesser compromises needed to make the car a good daily driver

[Law]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I dunno. I don't see many "younger" folks that CAN drive sticks here in Murica. In fact, I don't see ANYONE younger than 40 that drives stick and drive it well.

There's a meme going around about the stick being the millennial "anti-theft" device:

It has more than just a hint of truth to it. I hear old farts like me talking about "prying the stick out of my dead, cold hands" than I see young 'ems say that. I don't think them millennials care about being "engaged" with their cars.

My comment about age was in reply to MalibuBimmer, who is 71 years of age. Unless you're 71 or older, you're also a "younger folk" in this conversation.
I've seen that meme and I can't really say it's accurate to point fingers at age groups.
Car enthusiasts regardless of age, generally have a higher preference for manual transmissions.
Most of my friends can drive a stick and a good percentage of them drive it on a daily basis, all are under 40 years of age so it's not a generational thing.

[MalibuBimmer]

Speaking about the SMG, that was truly a pile o' shit. It hesitated at low speeds just when you wanted to engage it and get going. In stop and go traffic on a freeway, just as the traffic cleared, and I would step on it, there was a whole lot of nothing happening for maybe half to three quarters of a second (which felt like a lifetime). DCT has given me back instantaneous response, which is what you get from a manny tranny, too, and therefore for me it's a very good compromise. (Turbo lag also seems to be nonexistent in the M4. My recent 650is also both seemed to have very little lag. The M6 cab was a NA V-10, which was really undertorqued, as a NA 5 litre engine is going to give you about 390 lb ft of torque no matter what you do to the timing.)

[DCG]

BMW rear-bias M xDrive as an option on all M models please!!!

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

With all due respect ... dude, what are you smoking?

This is patently not true. Manuals have never, ever been popular in the U.S. as a percentage of total sales of a model. In fact, as recently as 10 years ago, the proportion of manuals vs. autos sold was:

U.S. - roughly 9 autos for one manual
Europe - roughly 6 manuals for one auto
Japan - roughly 5 manuals for one auto

In Europe and Japan, manuals still out-sell autos by a considerable margin -- though the percentage is shrinking, of course.

Compare the above to manual sales in the U.S., which is currently about 3 percent of cars sold. This is down from slightly above 7 percent in 2010.

And in your home country of Australia, 15 percent of cars sold were manuals in 2013 -- and that number is now about 8 percent.

Please don't spread propaganda based on your home country's tendencies. U.S. posters do it all of the time on this board. Your country's rules do not apply to the entire frakking world.

Well, BMW did put a manual transmission in the E60 M5 exclusively for the US market because there was such a demand for it.