BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Eco Pro drive is like driving a beached whale
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      07-01-2015, 04:38 PM   #67
SteveC
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Often mistaken for turbo lag

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Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The turbo lag is present at all engine speeds. The turbo is driven by exhaust energy, and when you go off the throttle, the intake valves are closed. This causes the exhaust flow to stop, and the turbo will spool down. Excess pressure is let out by a valve. Eventually the turbo will be spinning very slowly. Once you go back on the throttle, it has to spin itself up again, and this takes time. At high RPM, you have more exhaust flow, so it will spin itself up faster. The engine will also need more air from the turbo at high RPM, so it needs to spin up to a very high speed to produce boost.

To test turbo lag, go off the throttle a few seconds, and then floor it. Notice how long time it takes from you hit the throttle to the engine is at full power for the given RPM.
A lot of people who drive ATs mistake this for turbo lag. What it is is the gear box upshifting and not down shifting again quickly enough in response to full throttle

What happens is that when you take your foot off the gas, the gearbox upshifts and you are essentially cruising in a very high gear. Floor the accelerator and it opens the inlet tract fully, reducing inlet air/fuel velocity, so there's very little engine pick up. This is not turbo lag. Also when you floor the gas, the gearbox takes a second or two to downshift, also not turbo lag.... Taken together its simply an engine out of its power band and a gearbox that's slow to downshift.
Try this. Take your foot off the gas (fuel feed is shut off) but instead of just stamping on the gas, manually downshift 1 or 2 gears to increase revs to say 3000 then stand on the gas. Turbo lag is almost zero....because air/fuel velocity is maintained, the car is within its power band and the turbo is able to spool up extremely quickly once fuel and therefore exhaust flow is resumed.

If you try what you suggest in a MT car, while maintaining appropriate revs, you'll find almost no turbo lag....the car responding almost instantly. Given that both AT and MT cars have the same turbo, the difference is the fact that AT upshift when throttle is closed and is then slow to downshift at full throttle
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      07-01-2015, 09:26 PM   #68
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Great write

A great example was our VW with it's slow gear box uptake. VW did replace the gear box but still had very slow uptake instead of extremely slow.

I must say our 116i doesn't suffer at all in sport mode. I specially tried today with take off's to see if their was any slow gear box uptake but their wasn't. I still smile every time I pull away at traffic lights and roundabouts as the car dials in straight away.
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Last edited by Kiwi; 07-01-2015 at 09:34 PM..
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      07-02-2015, 12:20 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
If you try what you suggest in a MT car, while maintaining appropriate revs, you'll find almost no turbo lag....the car responding almost instantly. Given that both AT and MT cars have the same turbo, the difference is the fact that AT upshift when throttle is closed and is then slow to downshift at full throttle
I have never driven a one series with automatic gearbox. Our car has a manual gearbox. And I have still have around one second of turbo lag, even at high RPM.
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      07-02-2015, 01:51 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I have never driven a one series with automatic gearbox. Our car has a manual gearbox. And I have still have around one second of turbo lag, even at high RPM.
You'll need to have a drive of the 8 speed as I and my wife was always manual but would never go back now I have 8 speed autos.
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      07-02-2015, 01:57 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
You'll need to have a drive of the 8 speed as I and my wife was always manual but would never go back now I have 8 speed autos.
I could perhaps live with the Sport Automatic gearbox, but it is not delivered in the 116i, only the expensive and powerful cars. I must have a mode where full throttle does not downshift, and throttle lift does not upshift. I need full manual control. I would also be very frustrated without a clutch pedal at the ice track weekends.

I am the type of driver who likes to double declutch shifts now and then just for the mechanical feel when the gear engages with no resistance.
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      07-02-2015, 02:48 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I could perhaps live with the Sport Automatic gearbox, but it is not delivered in the 116i, only the expensive and powerful cars. I must have a mode where full throttle does not downshift, and throttle lift does not upshift. I need full manual control. I would also be very frustrated without a clutch pedal at the ice track weekends.

I am the type of driver who likes to double declutch shifts now and then just for the mechanical feel when the gear engages with no resistance.
We have BMW's snow/ice testing park for new vehicle testing as well owners can use and none of us have had problems.

The 116i is now a 118i same power. I would need more than double clutch in Eco Pro
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      07-02-2015, 03:02 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
We have BMW's snow/ice testing park for new vehicle testing as well owners can use and none of us have had problems.

The 116i is now a 118i same power. I would need more than double clutch in Eco Pro
Our 116i is from 2012, so it has the four cylinder engine. When I participate in ice track weekends, I use the clutch quite a lot for drift control. It is possible to drive in winter conditions with an automatic, but you do have more control (and fun) with a manual gearbox and of course DSC Off.

Eco Pro is mostly about psychology, to make the driver focus on efficient driving.
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      07-10-2015, 07:50 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonF1982
I use ECO PRO on my 116i every day commuting to work and Motorway journeys. I'm usually carrying passengers and driving for their comfort too.

If i take the back way home or i'm out for a spin on my own, i flick it into sport, but I'd say i'm in ECO 90% of the time and i'm still enjoying driving it.

There's a lot to be said for driving economically, reading the road ahead, avoiding coming to a complete stop etc. I have the journey computer reset automatically and try to keep the MPG averaging over 40. 46.3 is my record for my journey home

Horses for courses. ECO for the motorway/heavy traffic, Sport for the twisties on a friday night.

I never use comfort, I don't see the point. You might as well be in one or the other?
Yes, it's good to see Eco minded people like you saving our resources.

This means I get to use the gas you saved in my bimmer running sport 24x7.

In all seriousness, I like the split personality. It's fun to drive spririted. But, it's also a chess game to throw it in ECO to see how many miles you can extract.

The Eco button is a brilliant engineering coup---especially to assuage the Catholic guilt associated with running in sport.
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      07-10-2015, 04:52 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Eco Pro is mostly about psychology, to make the driver focus on efficient driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
In all seriousness, I like the split personality. It's fun to drive spririted. But, it's also a chess game to throw it in ECO to see how many miles you can extract.

The Eco button is a brilliant engineering coup---especially to assuage the Catholic guilt associated with running in sport.
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      07-10-2015, 07:45 PM   #76
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> Eco Pro is mostly about psychology

To let the concerned feel assisted rather than stupid.

> to make the driver focus on efficient driving

They put the "ecometer" on the dashboard and suggest gears in Comfort.

> button is a brilliant engineering coup

Next to lever and wheel.

> The Eco button is brilliant to assuage the Catholic guilt

The Pope must condemn it then.
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      07-10-2015, 11:43 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
> Eco Pro is mostly about psychology

To let the concerned feel assisted rather than stupid.

> to make the driver focus on efficient driving

They put the "ecometer" on the dashboard and suggest gears in Comfort.

> button is a brilliant engineering coup

Next to lever and wheel.

> The Eco button is brilliant to assuage the Catholic guilt

The Pope must condemn it then.
For those who believe in fiction and follow like sheep. I'm so glad I'm normal and live my own life and don't need a crutch to lean own. Sports mode all the way.
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      07-11-2015, 12:06 PM   #78
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I don't know why some of you seem to hate the very idea of an eco mode. Does it threaten your fragile manhood? The default is comfort, if you want sport, choose it, its not like they force you to use the eco setting.

Kiwi, I love the irony that you picked a 116i and cane it around in sport only
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      07-11-2015, 04:08 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
I don't know why some of you seem to hate the very idea of an eco mode. Does it threaten your fragile manhood? The default is comfort, if you want sport, choose it, its not like they force you to use the eco setting.

Kiwi, I love the irony that you picked a 116i and cane it around in sport only
Caning is for young idiots:- It's driving BMW how it should be It's like saying i've given up on life and believe the greenies the world is over. Instead I enjoy BMW on what it was and the enjoyment of small engines you have to work at. Even my dealers staff enjoy getting out in a 116i when thy can and have some fun.

The 116i has to have sport suspension and sport seats. It would even suit a raspy sound coming out the end of the rear pipe.

This is my third 116i in 4 years and best to date.
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      07-11-2015, 05:25 PM   #80
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ECOOooo PROoooo

Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
I don't know why some of you seem to hate the very idea of an eco mode.
Because it has the same performance characteristics as a Peugeot 404, a big, heavy, underpowered car that was a dog and because its absolutely no fun whatsoever to drive

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Originally Posted by padders View Post
The default is comfort, if you want sport, choose it, its not like they force you to use the eco setting.
That's what's so brilliant. It collects together all the really horrible settings required by our bureaucrats into a single button that you can studiously ignore....genius
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      07-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
I don't know why some of you seem to hate the very idea of an eco mode. Does it threaten your fragile manhood?
Interesting thinking! The one who feels it's fragile should rather work on that. Just personally, I prefer the active defence (blocking, avoiding) over that "last resort". If Eco Pro is really dangerous in that aspect (who'd have thought that?!!) I'd rather never try it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
Kiwi, I love the irony that you picked a 116i and cane it around in sport only
What's ironic about that? He takes the most from the least, it's quite some resource preservation, isn't it?
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      07-11-2015, 05:57 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Caning is for young idiots:- It's driving BMW how it should be It's like saying i've given up on life and believe the greenies the world is over. Instead I enjoy BMW on what it was and the enjoyment of small engines you have to work at. Even my dealers staff enjoy getting out in a 116i when thy can and have some fun.

The 116i has to have sport suspension and sport seats. It would even suit a raspy sound coming out the end of the rear pipe.

This is my third 116i in 4 years and best to date.
Fair enough Kiwi. You make good sense on this point so I withdraw my arsey comment which was perhaps influenced by how opinionated and infuriating you can be at times.

I still think you are a little blinkered on the eco-pro option but what the heck.
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      07-11-2015, 11:22 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
Fair enough Kiwi. You make good sense on this point so I withdraw my arsey comment which was perhaps influenced by how opinionated and infuriating you can be at times.

I still think you are a little blinkered on the eco-pro option but what the heck.
Kiwi's are always opinionated and out spoken and always flying high. How else would we be world champions in so many sports.

I suppose because we don't have many laws to hold us back. Drugs and guns are the only things we don't want and is fairly well controlled. Our police don't carry guns and we can debate with them without being arrested. I do have to control myself when I'm overseas or I could see myself being sent home on the next flight out.

I did have a great drive in our 220i convertible today with top down, heated seats on and sports mode selected on a sunny mid winters day. Lambing has just started.
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