[John 070]

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

Of course, you should have kids so you can collect more $Money from he govt..... duh it's a no brain-er.

Oh, let's bust through this myth. Had a son born in Dec., which is pretty good since the year is almost over yet we get the entire tax year 2013, right?

First of all, if you drive a BMW, you won't qualify for any credit (if your income is typical of a BMW driver). What you will get is an exemption of $3,900. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, that's worth $975 (assume that most BMW drivers are in a higher bracket but have deductions to get them into 25%).

Now, a delivery exceeds 50k, so for whatever health plan you have, the mom will max her out-of-pocket. Ours was 1k (THANK GOODNESS) but nowadays you see 7k, 10k, 13k, etc. on lousy employer plans. $975 in no way offsets 7k.

Personally, I wish life were ideal, because then, there's no question, having a child born has to be THE most rewarding thing possible for a mother or father. I mean to actually see the baby come out, it's pretty amazing.

Going back to the OP's scenario, I always thought you see 75 y.o. men having children, wth, it's easy. WRONG.

There are two biological clocks, mainly the woman's, but the man does factor in as well.

35 is the cut-off for a woman, after that it's like falling off of a cliff statistically. Chances of miscarriage, birth defects, down syndrome, autism, etc. And, the man's age is a contributing factor as well.

I never would have said it because I didn't know any of this stuff before, but if you want to have kids, do it when you're relatively young (<35). Later is fine, just that you're rolling dice with complications, and you also have less time to enjoy them.

Just my humble opinion, it's a natural and very rewarding experience.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by John 070

Oh, let's bust through this myth. Had a son born in Dec., which is pretty good since the year is almost over yet we get the entire tax year 2013, right?

First of all, if you drive a BMW, you won't qualify for any credit (if your income is typical of a BMW driver). What you will get is an exemption of $3,900. If you're in the 25% tax bracket, that's worth $975 (assume that most BMW drivers are in a higher bracket but have deductions to get them into 25%).

Now, a delivery exceeds 50k, so for whatever health plan you have, the mom will max her out-of-pocket. Ours was 1k (THANK GOODNESS) but nowadays you see 7k, 10k, 13k, etc. on lousy employer plans. $975 in no way offsets 7k.

Personally, I wish life were ideal, because then, there's no question, having a child born has to be THE most rewarding thing possible for a mother or father. I mean to actually see the baby come out, it's pretty amazing.

Going back to the OP's scenario, I always thought you see 75 y.o. men having children, wth, it's easy. WRONG.

There are two biological clocks, mainly the woman's, but the man does factor in as well.

35 is the cut-off for a woman, after that it's like falling off of a cliff statistically. Chances of miscarriage, birth defects, down syndrome, autism, etc. And, the man's age is a contributing factor as well.

I never would have said it because I didn't know any of this stuff before, but if you want to have kids, do it when you're relatively young (<35). Later is fine, just that you're rolling dice with complications, and you also have less time to enjoy them.

Just my humble opinion, it's a natural and very rewarding experience.

1, I believe Whostheboss was making a joke.

2, It's not a myth. It just didn't work for you or any other person who pays their own bills and makes a decent living.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Litos

my wife would killer herself if she was a SAHM....

she has 3 degrees - she ain't gonna let that go to waste sitting at home ironing my clothes....

**even though she irons my shirts every morning before I go to work, she would NEVER stay at home all day***

I don't think degrees mean anything, although, I have to admit, the argument might work as a tiebreaker if say both spouses make the same amount.

My friend's wife has a Brown undergrad and Harvard MBA, and she stays at home. She was probably earning I think close to 200k when she had their baby. It's a personal decision. Probably, if she decided to go back to work she could. It's very fascinating to me how when you have kids, life is, and is not, all about money. Personally I find it outrageous to have to pay $1600/mo. for daycare, and then be expected to save $1200/mo. for college from birth. UM, most of us have mortgages and other bills to pay as well! but at the same time, I would not let these things delay what's actually very natural and really a good thing.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by John 070

I don't think degrees mean anything, although, I have to admit, the argument might work as a tiebreaker if say both spouses make the same amount.

My friend's wife has a Brown undergrad and Harvard MBA, and she stays at home. She was probably earning I think close to 200k when she had their baby. It's a personal decision. Probably, if she decided to go back to work she could. It's very fascinating to me how when you have kids, life is, and is not, all about money. Personally I find it outrageous to have to pay $1600/mo. for daycare, and then be expected to save $1200/mo. for college from birth. UM, most of us have mortgages and other bills to pay as well! but at the same time, I would not let these things delay what's actually very natural and really a good thing.

Who is expecting you to save $1200/month for college?

So while you think degrees don't mean anything, you're going to plunk down $260k for your kid's degrees, that again, don't mean anything?

Also, what kind of gold plated spoon wielding, silk diaper fitting, aroma therapy having, caviar feeding, day care are you sending your kid to?!?!? I've been told daycare isn't cheap, but $20k a year?!? I have employees who barely make double that and they have their kids in daycare. I know they aren't paying that much.

Also, maybe your state has a prepaid college fund? That's the way to go in FL.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Also, maybe your state has a prepaid college fund? That's the way to go in FL.

Have you checked the rates in FL lately? The four year university plan is like $50k now

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Who is expecting you to save $1200/month for college?

So while you think degrees don't mean anything, you're going to plunk down $260k for your kid's degrees, that again, don't mean anything?

Also, what kind of gold plated spoon wielding, silk diaper fitting, aroma therapy having, caviar feeding, day care are you sending your kid to?!?!? I've been told daycare isn't cheap, but $20k a year?!? I have employees who barely make double that and they have their kids in daycare. I know they aren't paying that much.

Also, maybe your state has a prepaid college fund? That's the way to go in FL.

. Gold plated spoon, you're joking?

Degrees mean nothing imho when it comes to moms and their wanting to be a mom. Lol I think you're just playin, no worries, what do you mean you've heard about daycare? Or are you not actually a parent?

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ShopVac

I'll try to track this back on course...

Watching kids grow up to mature adults is definitely worth it. Sure, I can have the bags of cash like my brother (DINKS)...but you don't get any sense of accomplishment?

Here's a recent example with me.

On January 4th this year - while playing hockey, a check incurred a simple fracture of both radius and ulna in my son's arm, creating a 45 painful minute trip to the emergency room. He played for 10 seconds while is arm was hanging down, to ensure the other team did not score while he was on the ice.


Another 1/8" would have pushed the radius through his wrist.



After re-breaking his arm at the orthopedic surgeon's - they still were not able to straighten it, so 4 hours of surgery to pin things back together.



Followed by 4 weeks in a full arm cast.



And then - the day he looked forward to. Getting the pins out, which should give him a 1/2 cast, allowing him to skate.

Of course, it didn't work out as planned, and he needed another full cast for 3 weeks. Followed by a short cast for another 2. Eventually though, he did get the cast off



Intense physical therapy to get back into shape - eventually was able to get back work with his team, just in time for the playoffs, making and helping his team win the championship game this past Wednesday.



Personally, wouldn't have mattered if we won. Seeing him go through all the ups and downs - from start to end was amazing. I've never seen someone push himself in a way to get back into the game like this...and as a parent, surely gives a sense of accomplishment.

To each their own though.

Good for your son!

I'm starting mine at 3. He doesn't have to play college or in the NHL, imho it's a sport that builds character, and no way can kids even play without a lot of support from their parents. We were dinks up until Dec. not sure what the word for my wife and me is today, but I think we're better off by far.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Also, what kind of gold plated spoon wielding, silk diaper fitting, aroma therapy having, caviar feeding, day care are you sending your kid to?!?!? I've been told daycare isn't cheap, but $20k a year?!? I have employees who barely make double that and they have their kids in daycare. I know they aren't paying that much.

I just went through an exhaustive search for daycare for my daughter. $400/wk is slightly below average. There is assistance from most states if you make below a certain amount but daycare in my area is anywhere from $385-550/wk. Don't worry, if you have two kids, they give you a 10% discount on the second so you only have to pay $760/wk if you have two kids in the same daycare.

I thought the numbers were bullshit as well before I started actually lookjing into it, but sadly they are not.

[Foxrus14]

That is what having a nanny is for. Hook up with friends that have kids the same age... Pay a nanny to watch both kids and cut costs in half.

[kobeballer96]

Originally Posted by Litos

my wife was 123lbs when she gave birth to my daughter.

4 months later she was back down to size 1 and 98lbs....

bitches see her walking around in yoga pants with the kids and they GET MAD BRUH !!!!


let me find some pictures of my wife at 8 months pregnant - she ain't even look pregnant from the back.....

she shopped for maternity clothes in the juniors department at Kohl's......

bitches were mad tho......

Lol lol she was killing the game bruh

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Foxrus14

That is what having a nanny is for. Hook up with friends that have kids the same age... Pay a nanny to watch both kids and cut costs in half.

We had a live-in for the last six months but that presented a host of other issues (heating the house all day, extra food, electricity). It was convenient for two working parents to leave without having to wake our daughter but the annoyance of having someone else in your house really grinds on you.

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I just went through an exhaustive search for daycare for my daughter. $400/wk is slightly below average. There is assistance from most states if you make below a certain amount but daycare in my area is anywhere from $385-550/wk. Don't worry, if you have two kids, they give you a 10% discount on the second so you only have to pay $760/wk if you have two kids in the same daycare.

I thought the numbers were bullshit as well before I started actually lookjing into it, but sadly they are not.

Seems like this is very much geographically specific, though.

Daycare down here in SoFla is nowhere near those amounts. For full 5 days/wk it was something like just under $1k/mo for a very good daycare (not Fidel's Discount Child Labor Factory and Daycare Center). So roughly $231/wk. With extended hours might be an extra $150/mo or similar.

I work from home and around my kids schedule, so no need for daycare or a nanny, but at one point had my daughter in daycare (only 3 days/wk for "socialization") and had a nanny for my newborn son, so I know the prices and while it's not cheap it isn't as expensive as what you're seeing up there.

I bet NY, Chicago, etc., would be higher as with all other costs of living. But who knows. Maybe there are super-duper fluffy-fufu daycare centers down here where they teach your 3yo how to use the bidet and say "I would like some grey poupon, s'il vouz plait" and charge ridiculous prices In which case I'm glad to not know about them, hehe.

[bing240sx]

buddy of mine pays $34k/yr for his 3 kids to be in daycare. shit's crazy in toronto.

big waiting lists for any place good. a lot of problems with unlicensed daycares.

this is another reason why a SAHM is a good idea. with even just 2 kids in daycare there is almost no value in that second income. even at $50k/yr after tax and subtracting out the daycare and travel costs it's barely minimum wage.

[KingOfJericho]

I don't doubt that geography plays a part. It's the same reason my 1,200sqft investment condo costs as much as a house with columns outside of Houston.

[carve]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Carve - keep asking questions, but keep in mind that at the end of the day this is not a decision that can be made simply weighing the pros and cons; mainly because while the cons can be probably perceived through observation of other parents (but probably not to the full extent), the intangible pros definitely cannot be observed, categorized, and understood. Not fully...not until its your kid.

I get that impression...but it sort of leads back into the title of this thread. Why do people willingly, happily take that plunge?

I think I do have a close to full extent understanding of the cons though, having a 14.5 year younger half brother who was a spoiled brat as a kid.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by carve

I get that impression...but it sort of leads back into the title of this thread. Why do people willingly, happily take that plunge?

I think I do have a close to full extent understanding of the cons though, having a 14.5 year younger half brother who was a spoiled brat as a kid.

Because theres more to life than just you and whats in it for you.

[KingOfJericho]

He seems to be under the impression that us parents are all miserable, despite all of us telling him otherwise. It's also kind of funny to hear him say that his half brother is a spoiled brat but he doesn't want to share the spotlight with a child because it would take attention off him and he won't be able to do the things he wants to do. It all seems a bit... childish.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

He seems to be under the impression that us parents are all miserable, despite all of us telling him otherwise. It's also kind of funny to hear him say that his half brother is a spoiled brat but he doesn't want to share the spotlight with a child because it would take attention off him and he won't be able to do the things he wants to do. It all seems a bit... childish.

I used to think like that too. I never wanted kids. Didnt care for them. Turned my nose up to kids that were loud in the grocery stores and such. But now, all of that is out the window and I cannot wait for July to come so I can be a Mommy. Until it happens to him he may never realize how joyous and wonderful being a parent can be.

[Sara]

For the whole numbers and worrying about paying for child expenses and college and stuff... If you want to be a parent, you'll find a way. If not, then you have your expense excuses. Its that simple.

[carve]

Sara: unless you "accidentally " got pregnant, it wasn't a conscious decision. But...sounds like you think you're some kind of maryter for having kids. It sounds like a bad idea to have kids UNLESS you're doing it for yourself....because you think the benefits outweigh the costs

I didn't require much attention at 15 on, so it wasn't a jealousy issue...it was a constantly annoyed by the temper tantrums and mess issue.

My girl and I were having this conversation with some late 40's friends yesterday. I mentioned one mutual set of friends of ours who I thought were the only ones I knew who were raising great kids AND seemed happy and successful. They said that couple basically lives separate lives outside of child rearing and they're sure they'll part ways after they get older

I can't find a single example in my life, friends and family, of a family who has good kids and are happy with a great, healthy relationship.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by carve

Sara: unless you "accidentally " got pregnant, it wasn't a conscious decision. But...sounds like you think you're some kind of maryter for having kids. It sounds like a bad idea to have kids UNLESS you're doing it for yourself....because you think the benefits outweigh the costs

I didn't require much attention at 15 on, so it wasn't a jealousy issue...it was a constantly annoyed by the temper tantrums and mess issue

Mine was indeed accidental but Im not worried about it one bit. Infact I dont know why I even waited this long!

[carve]

Originally Posted by Sara504

Mine was indeed accidental but Im not worried about it one bit. Infact I dont know why I even waited this long!

Well...why did you? There must've been a reason prior to this