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      07-24-2015, 10:15 PM   #1
cmpsalvestrini
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Petition possibility for auto start/stop to be programmed by default to last setting

Dear members,

I'm considering to start a petition to have all BMWs featuring auto start/stop technology to be programmed to remember the last setting chosen by the driver. I honestly do not care for some CO2 or gas consumption figure, I just want to drive *my* car the way *I* want it and to have start/stop engaging at every engine restart is *not* how I want the car to behave.

To be blunt, I do not believe a word about start/stop enabled cars having reinforced starters and alternators, nor do I believe the figures that claim idling cars consume more than start/stop enabled ones. The simple fact of the matter is this: There are simply too many points of failure being introduced with this technology to credibly believe that all it does is reduce emissions.

To properly work, auto start/stop technology relies on sensors: sensors that read brake pressure, inclination, engine revs, battery charge level, oil temperature, cockpit temperature, outside temperature and gas pedal position, among other parameters. Any one of them can fail or misread at any time, leading to random occasions where the car's auto start/stop engages even under conditions under which it should not have engaged.

Moreover, mechanical components suffer from increased wear (by BMW's own admission, talk to any BMW mechanic and he will confirm it, I have and they did confirm what I am saying here): Besides the obvious parts, such as the alternator, starter and battery, the AC compressor, alternator belt, AC belt, and engine block suffer from stress with this technology. With so many "serviceable points" being affected by automatic start/stop technology, I suspect that it is in reality a covert way to introduce programmed obsolescence into automobiles.

If automakers were really serious about reducing gas consumption and CO2 emissions, they would be pushing more plug-in hybrids and 100% electric cars, instead of having a half measure like automatic start/stop. I laugh every time I engage it (because yes, I do engage start/stop in traffic) when it turns the engine after 30 seconds of stopping at a line because I'm going to be uncomfortably warm.

I'm going to share my personal experience, if I may: One morning while driving normally my 2014 BMW 116i, with start/stop engaged, at 20 / 30 kph on my way to work, and while turning turning the car onto an uphill road, my engine suddenly turned off and the rev went down to READY for about 2 seconds. I suspect this happened because of a start/stop sensor misread. The steering wheel of course locked, and I missed hitting an oncoming car by a margin of distance that is measured in centimeters (or inches for our friends on the other side of the pond).

Since then I have done the ritual of pushing the start/stop button every time I turn on the car, because I have lost all confidence that this feature is safe, and I asked my dealer to have it deactivated. They refused. So, I educated myself and I used certain tools to disable auto start/stop completely. Again this is my personal experience, you may or may not agree with me but I know what I experienced and I do not intend to

What does the forum think?
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      07-25-2015, 12:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I'm considering to start a petition to have all BMWs featuring auto start/stop technology to be programmed to remember the last setting chosen by the driver.
I would also add remembering the last driving mode (Sport+ for me), if possible.

Seriously, there was some movement already (reported unofficially): BMW Allows Dealers to Deactivate Auto Start-Stop Ignition. Where is that now? And some discussion here too: Auto Stop/Start memory function (software update).

The function is well-known obviously ineffective, the purpose for it is some trade-off to make the car more affordable and better performing(?). It's a political, not a technical matter. If they don't enable it initially, nobody will ever do that manually, so it would be cancelling in fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I just want to drive *my* car the way *I* want it
I just want to live my life the way I want it, but there are circumstances I have to rather comply with. Even if you make the President or the King you'll find out you can't act exactly at your will: there's always a compromise in fact. In some countries there's nothing to breathe with already . Others sit by the ocean and appreciate that enough to fight for the air to keep it clean .

I appreciate that they allow to disable the function manually (they could withdraw that, just incidentally). It's not too much a burden to press another button. Or two. I just hope they won't have to introduce a piano keyboard to perform a regular start-up drill at some point (the ///M cars are reported to have quite many settings to play with):





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Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
If automakers were really serious about reducing gas consumption and CO2 emissions, they would be pushing more plug-in hybrids and 100% electric cars
They do, don't they? It's just a long way to go before those become really acceptable. And it's not automakers themselves, it's the politicians that make them care and invest and suggest compromises. Automakers are on your side: they don't want to invest into anything other than what sells their product. But the governments have a "wider" view and put regulations.

The Porsche 918 is an amazing car according to the Top Gear:





I just can't afford it anyhow. Can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I'm going to share my personal experience, if I may: One morning while driving normally my 2014 BMW 116i, with start/stop engaged, at 20 / 30 kph on my way to work, and while turning the car onto an uphill road, my engine suddenly turned off and the rev went down to READY for about 2 seconds.
If you did not shut the engine yourself (automatic gearbox?) you should report that to the service and get them check if everything's all right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
The steering wheel of course locked
I'm under impression it only locks when I turn off the ignition (I can hear it engaged, I presume).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I missed hitting an oncoming car by a margin of distance that is measured in centimeters (or inches for our friends on the other side of the pond).


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      07-25-2015, 02:47 AM   #3
padders
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Petition all you like but it will never happen, in Euro juristictions anyhow the cars will always default to SS on. The system is integral to the CO2 figures which are tied up with taxation and as such I doubt BMW would be brave enough to mess with the set up which was type approved.
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      07-25-2015, 04:51 AM   #4
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So you didn't do your home work or test drive your car before you purchased. How is this BMW's fault.
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      07-25-2015, 05:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padders View Post
Petition all you like but it will never happen, in Euro juristictions anyhow the cars will always default to SS on. The system is integral to the CO2 figures which are tied up with taxation and as such I doubt BMW would be brave enough to mess with the set up which was type approved.
I agree. BMW would not officially change this setup on a car. The best you can hope for, is for the them to do it for you secretly without telling anybody, and deny that it ever happened if somebody asks.
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      07-25-2015, 09:43 AM   #6
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Of course it would be nice to set the default to off if you want that (and to set the default driving mode) but I don't see it happening. As stated, the default mode a car starts in is in some way determined by policies / legislation above customer demand.

Seeing as the button is just above the start button anyway it's not like you're going out your way to press it
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      07-26-2015, 03:17 AM   #7
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This is SUCH a first world problem!
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      07-26-2015, 06:18 AM   #8
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TL;DR... anyway, wont happen but can be coded if it's such a huge problem.
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      07-27-2015, 12:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I do not believe a word about start/stop enabled cars having reinforced starters and alternators
Either you're saying BMW are willfully lying about their engineering analysis, or that BMW are incompetent and you have a better understanding of the engineering than them. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a bold assertion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
nor do I believe the figures that claim idling cars consume more than start/stop enabled ones.
That sounds like an objectively verifiable thing to test. And a fairly easy thing to test. I thought the main reason was to improve the numbers from standardized fuel consumption tests which in turn affect vehicle taxation in many jurisdictions. Consider: given that the feature does irritate a few people, if it didn't improve objectively measurable real world consumption, why would BMW implement it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
I suspect that it is in reality a covert way to introduce programmed obsolescence into automobiles.
Oh, so it's a conspiracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
Any one of them can fail or misread at any time, leading to random occasions where the car's auto start/stop engages even under conditions under which it should not have engaged.
Some of the key sensors involved in the start/stop mechanism are the ones determining apparent road speed, brake pedal depression, transmission position, engine temperature and battery voltage. If any of these sensors failed, premature engagement of start/stop would be the least of your worries. Even if start/stop was nonexistent, any of these sensors failing would render the car dangerous, damaged or undriveable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
One morning while driving normally my 2014 BMW 116i, with start/stop engaged, at 20 / 30 kph on my way to work, and while turning the car onto an uphill road, my engine suddenly turned off and the rev went down to READY for about 2 seconds.
Based on your description of events I wouldn't assume the problem is with start/stop. A electrics fault could similarly explain loss of engine and power steering. Start/stop should never engage when the car is in motion. If your car's ECU is under the misapprehension that your car is stationary when in fact it is not, that is a very serious problem and would affect many systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
but I know what I experienced and I do not intend to
...finish your
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      07-27-2015, 03:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpsalvestrini View Post
One morning while driving normally my 2014 BMW 116i, with start/stop engaged, at 20 / 30 kph on my way to work, and while turning the car onto an uphill road, my engine suddenly turned off and the rev went down to READY for about 2 seconds.
I have a manual gearbox and when driving with the ASS on I had a few occasions of stalling the engine unintentionally (my fault). The ASS kindly assisted to wind it up again (automatically) . It's just it really takes that couple of seconds and on another occasion I rushed to hit the button and effectively prevented the engine from starting as the ASS had already interfered .

The manual (the ASS chapter, page 59 of the famous forum version) states "The engine is not shut down automatically in the following situations: ... Sharp steering angle or steering operation".
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      07-27-2015, 03:58 AM   #11
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The ASS system has saved me after unintentionally stalling the engine with clumsy clutch use a couple of times too.
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      07-27-2015, 04:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The ASS system has saved me after unintentionally stalling the engine with clumsy clutch use a couple of times too.
Yeah amen to that
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      08-18-2015, 06:19 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=cmpsalvestrini;18313967]Dear members,

I'm considering to start a petition to have all BMWs featuring auto start/stop technology to be programmed to remember the last setting chosen by the driver.


I also hate the auto start/stop.
You can have this feature disabled. You can have it recoded by the dealer to stay in the mode selected (but it costs around $300.00).
I had mine done as part of the purchase deal. It will only change if I select it now.
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      08-19-2015, 01:55 AM   #14
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I think the best way forward would be to get BMW to program an option for the owner of the car to change the setting in the options menu like so:
A.S.S settings:
1. remember last position
2. A.S.S on
3. A.S.S off

That way, it's completely up to the person what they want to do rather than it being coded always on or always off.

The same goes for the driving mode. It should most definitely not be always sport mode and I really don't think it should remember the last setting if you were in sport or sport+ mode. Not only does this risk engine wear on a cold engine but it could also be dangerous if you let someone drive your car in the wet, snowy or other conditions (just one example).
For the driving mode you could have the same options in the menu for it to be programmed by the user not BMW. Just how the "running lights" are programmed by the user.


PS. every time I get in and start the car with the push button, I also press the A.S.S button to turn it off. it's not that much of a hassle since your thumb is there to press the engine start button anyway.
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      08-19-2015, 02:01 AM   #15
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In many countries, the cost of the car depends on the pollution/consumption figures based on tests run with the A.S.S enabled. If the customer could disable it, it would make the car more expensive to buy, so BMW does not give us that option easily.
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      08-19-2015, 04:13 AM   #16
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Seriously, how hard is it? It's a function and a part of the car you chose to buy. Pick another car if you don't like how the one you bought works instead of wasting more energy.
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      08-19-2015, 08:15 AM   #17
padders
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Good Scandinavian common sense in both the previous 2 replies above
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      08-23-2015, 11:01 PM   #18
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I "+1" all 3 replies above me
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