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      08-05-2015, 06:11 AM   #1
Kyle5226
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Exclamation BMW M135i Turbo dying down?

Hey everyone

Its my first time on this forum. and im here because i have a problem.
Im 20 years old and ive just bought my first car myself.
Its a 2013, M135i. I have downpiped it, Decatted it with a minicat (To fool the system making it believe that i havent decatted it) and now recently got a Chip in the car.

Its pushing about 280kw.

But last night i was racing a 2013 Stage 2 Audi S3, when i put my foot down and changed to 4th gear, i could feel the turbo working, and then it like died out? So i had to take my foot off the accelerator and re apply it?
This mainly happens in 3rd and 4th gear..

It happens very rarely but something must obviously be wrong?

Please help
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      08-05-2015, 07:13 AM   #2
takrdown
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Are you getting an SES (yellow/red engine symbol) on the dash? A couple of things this COULD be is a HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) or the intake valves need a valve cleaning. This is typically done in the US with a process called walnut shell cleaning/blasting.

I also have a 2009 135 and these are historically the two items that cause a loss of power. Let us know what indications you are getting on the dash if any. I would also do some searches in the 1Addicts portion of this forum. If the 1 series has a problem it has been discussed there at length.

Good luck!
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      08-05-2015, 07:16 AM   #3
takrdown
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Just a bit more to add....I just noticed that you said you have a 2013 and the HPFP issues have all but died down as the model years go on so the chances of that are pretty low.

I'm thinking it might be something to do with your tune? What kind of tune is it? Have you looked into getting a JB4? I've had one for years and I have NEVER had any issues with it.
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      08-05-2015, 08:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle5226 View Post
But last night i was racing a 2013 Stage 2 Audi S3, when i put my foot down and changed to 4th gear, i could feel the turbo working, and then it like died out? So i had to take my foot off the accelerator and re apply it?
This mainly happens in 3rd and 4th gear..

It happens very rarely but something must obviously be wrong?

Please help
Is it like it has no balls immediately after shifting into 4th, until you lift off and reapply the throttle?

That's timing flatline. Time for a better tune.
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      08-05-2015, 09:09 PM   #5
dishy
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If it dies down and then you lift off and stamp the throttle and it springs back into life, even momentarily before doing the same die down again, it sounds like ECU boost cut. Meaning, the car is getting too much turbo boost and the ECU is protecting the engine.
What was the weather like outside at the time? If it was quite cold then the air will be denser, allowing the engine to raise more boost.
Do you have a gauge to inform you of turbo boost pressure? Do you know at what pressure the ECU cuts off, or even what pressure your chip or tune box cuts off?

If you have done all that work to the car, do you have a dyno run to see if your car is running correctly? If not then how do you know if your car is not running lean?
The standard m135 has max torque from 1500 to 4500 RPM, what's your graph like now you've done the tune? I'd be very interested in this as it will tell you where you need to upshift, ie where your power band is.

So many questions.
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      08-06-2015, 01:04 AM   #6
ovekvam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dishy View Post
The standard m135 has max torque from 1500 to 4500 RPM, what's your graph like now you've done the tune? I'd be very interested in this as it will tell you where you need to upshift, ie where your power band is.
Unless the power has a rather sharp dip down before the rev limiter, I think the fastest way is to shift just before the limiter kicks in, at least in the lower gears. The top gears usually have rather close ratios, making it possible to shift slightly sooner.
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      08-06-2015, 01:08 AM   #7
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Your car is what's known as

Your car is what is known in the trade as broke. Which is what you'll be if you keep treating your M135i like some sort of amateur DIY project.

Modern engines need precise mixtures, ignition timing and turbo boost and you're screwing with all three without a clue of what the result may be. It sounds like you've fooled the ECU, to the point its now trying to prevent the engine from self destructing

You're no doubt familiar with the expression 'tighten it 'til it strips then back it off half a turn'. This sounds like the tuning equivalent...'shut the wastegate 'til it blows, then turn it down 2 psi'
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      08-06-2015, 02:03 AM   #8
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I think we need more information before we can judge whether the OP has done something wrong, SteveC.

What tuning chip have you fitted, and who has done the work?
Do you have before- and after dyno- runs of the engine?
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      08-06-2015, 03:13 AM   #9
dishy
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In an attempt at light humour instead of angry faces, I'm wondering if this is what the OP meant when he said "got a chip inside the car"




In honesty though, billy-bolt-on's as engine tuning must be the worst things you could do to an engine as there's no factual evidence, proof or graphical results to confirm yes "your engine is still operating safely whilst it's putting out more power than it should". Running an engine lean will give you more power too, but it will generate more heat and likely break. Lean burn can melt pistons btw. I've seen an engine which was happily cruising under the speed limit on the motorway whilst melted one of it's pistons completely.
This is not to say your engine cannot handle it, but what about the other components? My old E30 325i ripped through it's sub frame and 2 engine mounts with the mainly stock engine
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      08-06-2015, 06:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
I think we need more information before we can judge whether the OP has done something wrong, SteveC.

What tuning chip have you fitted, and who has done the work?
Do you have before- and after dyno- runs of the engine?
A tantrum emoticon....how cute

What will 'name-the-chip' and dyno results tell you about the health of an engine? Nothing I believe. As long as the chip programmer hasn't told you precisely what changes he's made, and you don't know what effect your exhaust modifications are having you're working entirely in the dark. You could be making more horsepower while burning holes in your pistons, carbonizing valves or melting spark plugs and you'd never know until the engine management shuts things down.....which is precisely what it seems to be doing here.
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      08-06-2015, 02:51 PM   #11
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Sounds like JB4 over boost, too higher boost and throttle closure ..... pretty common issue when pushing an EWG car. Is it EWG ?
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      08-06-2015, 09:07 PM   #12
dishy
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Correct me if I'm wrong but a dyno run isn't just putting the car on the rollers and putting your foot flat to the floor. They will set up their computer to monitor exhaust emissions and other things so they can determine if the power the engine is producing is safe. They can then tweak if necessary. This is what the OP needs to have done if he hasn't already. If the car is providing too much boost then it's shutting off to protect itself from running lean. Maybe the car is already running lean.
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      08-07-2015, 02:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
A tantrum emoticon....how cute

What will 'name-the-chip' and dyno results tell you about the health of an engine? Nothing I believe.....
Well, it's like this, SteveC. The OP, Kyle5226, is a first-time poster, who has a bit of a problem. Now, I'm sure you agree, we should all do our best to try to help first-time posters experiencing a problem. Your response was to be as sarcastic and cynical as possible, which I think is unhelpful, by any measure. In passing, I note this is not an uncommon response from you, so perhaps you might reflect on that. Hence

As to your question in response to mine. Well, in my considered opinion based on quite a few years working on and tuning cars, in the absence of actually being present and seeing/hearing/feeling what's going on with the car, good dyno data including logs on AFRs, EGTs, boost and timing will tell you a great deal about where the problem lies, as dishy suggests. Furthermore, knowing the brand of the tune enables us -- as chaddy74 has indicated in relation to the known JB4 overboost issue -- help the OP by alerting him to known issues.

These forums are, or should be, all about helping others solve problems and providing helpful advice. I do hope you might take that into consideration in providing future input. Please take this in the constructive way it is intended.
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      08-07-2015, 04:05 PM   #14
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Helping people

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
Well, it's like this, SteveC. The OP, Kyle5226, is a first-time poster, who has a bit of a problem. Now, I'm sure you agree, we should all do our best to try to help first-time posters experiencing a problem. Your response was to be as sarcastic and cynical as possible, which I think is unhelpful, by any measure. In passing, I note this is not an uncommon response from you, so perhaps you might reflect on that. Hence

These forums are, or should be, all about helping others solve problems and providing helpful advice. I do hope you might take that into consideration in providing future input. Please take this in the constructive way it is intended.
Actually, my post was intended as a mild bollocking. "Stop fricking around with the damned thing, you're going to break it".

My neighbours son is 20 years old and a petrol head. He spends most weekends screwing around with his car, following the 'advice' he reads on forums. The first thing I stopped him doing was climbing under his jacked up car without chocks. I advised him his exhaust was too loud. He fixed that when he got a ticket. He fitted a piggy back ECU that he bought via the Internet...few weeks later his car was towed in for some major engine repairs.

In this case, the OPs very nice and very powerful M135i's ECU is intervening to prevent its engine from lunching itself. Under the circumstances I thought my post was rather well judged.
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