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      05-29-2011, 11:27 AM   #45
pyrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by han405 View Post
The sad part is both the Miata and S2000 are guess what, RWD!

BMW wishes a FWD Z2 will drive well like a Miata, or even a S2000. Well, actually, BMW wishes they could build a roadster like Miata.
In fact, the Miata is THE benchmark for entry level roadsters. It has been praised by people world wide for over 15 years. I really can't imagine a FWD Z2 can even touch the MX-5 Miata in price and performance.

By performance, i don't just mean engine displacement or HP output. drive-ability, handling, fun factor are all part of it.
OMG you are right, I checked the Mazda website because I was in disbelief. The Mazda Miata is rear-wheel drive. Mazda didn't shy away from RWD because the car has only a 4-cyl, they didn't shy away because probably 1/2 of its customers think it is FWD (BMW has this idea that they shouldn't develop RWD 1 and Z2 series because most owners are unaware according to surveys).

The truth is that Mazda had the conviction to make this car RWD regardless of development costs because that is the best way to make it perform - best way to keep its fan base.

BMW should too.
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      05-29-2011, 12:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Z2 now becomes part of the FWD architecture and will comprise of a single model Roadster, The car is extremely compact and will offer a entry choice for a sporty BMW.
I am disappointed that the Z2 will only be available in a Roadster.
Naturally I prefer the RWD driving dynamic that I have come to know and appreciate from BMW but as I mentioned before I will wait and see what the FWD driving dynamic is like and how similar or different it is from MINI before I pass judgment. I understand the BMW is a business and of course businesses make money and want to be profitable. One way to do that is to share technology between brands and or car lines. However I think that BMW Group has to be very cautious and careful in how the differentiate the brands between MINI and the new FWD BMW's.

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      05-29-2011, 01:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
* The market demands a 6-cylinder sports car.
Says who? The Solstice/Saturn Sky did fine in this segment. And of course the BMW 4cyl (N20, probably) would smoke anything GM put in a car.

Get used to it, 6/8 cylinders in non performance cars is going (and already gone) away, across several manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
How can it possibly make sense not to give the buyers what they want?!?
Again, "buyer's want" is an artificial term. You know how many female 328 drivers I see/know that have no clue that they have a inline 6? Do they care? Of course not, nor does most of the general public. Goes fast, gets decent mileage = plenty of smiles. Doesn't matter if 4/6/8.
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      05-29-2011, 02:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster. The Z2 might be rechristened Z1.

The Z2 effectively beckons the return of the Z3. With the next Z4 moving to become the Z5. Z3 is something BMW are wanting to return to because the name was hugely popular when the car was launched in 1995 , despite its ancient platform and mechanicals. Customers in droves bought the new Z3 and in certain parts of the world , Z3 waiting lists were up to two years long.

The Z3 name has always been earmarked for return.
Scott you need to create a table time, with timeline on the x-axis and model line up on the Y then product description in the production box.

From all you have mentioned now we have

1,2,3,5,6,7
z1,z2,z5,
x1,x3,x5,x6
m2,m3,m5,x6m,x5m,z2m
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      05-29-2011, 03:15 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
That said, they better pull their head out of their *** while they can, and just put xDrive on the Z2, so at least it will drive like a proper BMW!
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      05-29-2011, 03:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Scott you need to create a table time, with timeline on the x-axis and model line up on the Y then product description in the production box.

From all you have mentioned now we have

1,2,3,5,6,7
z1,z2,z5,
x1,x3,x5,x6
m2,m3,m5,x6m,x5m,z2m
Add in the X3M and the X4.

http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/ that should give a rough timeline for some of the models.

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      05-29-2011, 04:05 PM   #51
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2 series...?!

AH!

*stabs self in eyes*
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      05-29-2011, 05:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Scott you need to create a table time, with timeline on the x-axis and model line up on the Y then product description in the production box.

From all you have mentioned now we have

1,2,3,5,6,7
z1,z2,z5,
x1,x3,x5,x6
m2,m3,m5,x6m,x5m,z2m
Forgot 4, x1m, x3m, z4m and possible m4
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      05-30-2011, 02:13 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster. The Z2 might be rechristened Z1.

The Z2 effectively beckons the return of the Z3. With the next Z4 moving to become the Z5. Z3 is something BMW are wanting to return to because the name was hugely popular when the car was launched in 1995 , despite its ancient platform and mechanicals. Customers in droves bought the new Z3 and in certain parts of the world , Z3 waiting lists were up to two years long.

The Z3 name has always been earmarked for return.
Sounds like the Z3/Z3M will be based on the 2er F22 RWD.
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      05-30-2011, 02:21 AM   #54
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Sporthatch...
That reminds me so much of Honda's epic fail with marketing the last Civic Type-R as Superhatch. Lets make up a name for every car in a model line, so only a true BMW addict can navigate this labyrinth of words! //Marketing division ftw. Stop it, BMW! Give us good cars, not riddles.
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      05-30-2011, 06:42 AM   #55
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this new F22 coupe/4 cylinder turbo/sports/6mt is the car I am targeting for replacement of my 335i coupe, but please make it a looker,
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      05-30-2011, 12:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by FORCED AIR View Post
2 series...?!

AH!

*stabs self in eyes*
LOL! It's those stupid round lights!! I'm happy to hear the 1M was not a limited ed and will carry on as the M2, but PLEASE don't make it hideous! I'm already bummed about not getting one of the 1M's this year... btw, since the name is changing to M2, will that make the 1M some kind of rare collector's edition?? (double sad for not getting one)
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      05-30-2011, 01:26 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
OMG you are right, I checked the Mazda website because I was in disbelief. The Mazda Miata is rear-wheel drive. Mazda didn't shy away from RWD because the car has only a 4-cyl, they didn't shy away because probably 1/2 of its customers think it is FWD (BMW has this idea that they shouldn't develop RWD 1 and Z2 series because most owners are unaware according to surveys).

The truth is that Mazda had the conviction to make this car RWD regardless of development costs because that is the best way to make it perform - best way to keep its fan base.

BMW should too.

might have to pull your " CAR GUY" card for not knowing that the Miata is RWD. it's been out for just a LITTLE while..
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      05-30-2011, 03:51 PM   #58
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might have to pull your " CAR GUY" card for not knowing that the Miata is RWD. it's been out for just a LITTLE while..
LOL true, but not for too long, its not a German car, so its a big off my car guy radar
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      05-30-2011, 06:28 PM   #59
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The truth is that Mazda had the conviction to make this car RWD regardless of development costs because that is the best way to make it perform - best way to keep its fan base.

BMW should too.
Exactly right.

Many people who are ignorant of their cars mechanicals can still appreaciate a good handling car. IMO, BMW are underestimating and disrespecting their customers if their marketing relies on the argument that Don't know = Don't care.
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      05-31-2011, 09:32 AM   #60
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Thanks for posting this addendum, SCOTT. south, can you add this info to the OP?

This strategy makes a lot more sense than having a FWD Z2 with the only RWD alternateive being a much larger Z4. I really like the looks of that Z3 render you posted. That is amazing.

So then, it could end up being:

Z1: UKL
Z3: F2x-based
Z5: F3x-based

IOW, for the RWD roadsters, the platform is one size smaller than you'd guess it might be from the name. I can accept that, I suppose. The only thing that does not makes sense is moving the roadsters back to odd numbers just as you are finally getting all the 4 seat coupes and convertibles to the even numbers. Oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster. The Z2 might be rechristened Z1.

The Z2 effectively beckons the return of the Z3. With the next Z4 moving to become the Z5. Z3 is something BMW are wanting to return to because the name was hugely popular when the car was launched in 1995 , despite its ancient platform and mechanicals. Customers in droves bought the new Z3 and in certain parts of the world , Z3 waiting lists were up to two years long.

The Z3 name has always been earmarked for return.
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      05-31-2011, 09:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Z1: UKL
Z3: F2x-based
Z5: F3x-based
That is exactly the proposal that they want to do.

They want to bring back the Z3 (Which was originally the Z2)
Z3 will be with a Soft-top and Coupe. Z5 will allow the next Z4 to grow slightly larger as Roadster with a folding hard-top.

Z3 and Z5 will be the RWD offerings with the entry Z1 being moved to FWD and the UKL platform. Z1 will share with the next MINI Coupe/Roadster/Spyder.

Z3 and Z5 will utilise the modular platform within the F20/F30 models.
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      05-31-2011, 10:09 AM   #62
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That is exactly the proposal that they want to do.
Thanks for confirming I was thinking along the right lines.

I would prefer Z0, Z2, Z4 for names, but that's a minor gripe. Actually, though, I have to say that "Zee-Zero" sounds pretty cool - very sporty sounding.
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      05-31-2011, 10:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
That is exactly the proposal that they want to do.

They want to bring back the Z3 (Which was originally the Z2)
Z3 will be with a Soft-top and Coupe. Z5 will allow the next Z4 to grow slightly larger as Roadster with a folding hard-top.

Z3 and Z5 will be the RWD offerings with the entry Z1 being moved to FWD and the UKL platform. Z1 will share with the next MINI Coupe/Roadster/Spyder.

Z3 and Z5 will utilise the modular platform within the F20/F30 models.
Ah yes a Coupe and a RWD Coupe at that!

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      05-31-2011, 11:58 AM   #64
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That's a bummer that the Z2 will be moved to a FWD platform, but it is interesting to hear of a possible return of the Z3 as a RWD roadster/coupe.
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      05-31-2011, 01:03 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
LOL true, but not for too long, its not a German car, so its a big off my car guy radar
I guess the 22 years that the Miata/MX-5 has been around isn't too long. Also, what's wrong with the Honda S2000? It's a great handling RWD roadster with a high revving naturally aspirated engine and one of the best shifting 6MT's on the planet. The one complaint is that it doesn't have enough low end torque, but it's definitely an enthusiast's car.
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      07-14-2011, 11:38 AM   #66
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Being optimistic, Show the M2 so we can get on with our lives.
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