BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > ONE and TWO Series SUMMARY: -- BMW 1-series, 2-series, M2, and Z2
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      05-29-2011, 12:39 AM   #23
e46e92love
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BMW trying to do what almost tanked Mercedes........build dozens upon dozens of models.

///M is going to be so watered dow.

FAIL.

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      05-29-2011, 01:43 AM   #24
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whoever came up with the 2-series scheme must be driving the Nissan Juke nd lovin it.
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      05-29-2011, 03:12 AM   #25
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I'd like to know more about F.A.S.T. hopefully this will be decent sized with plenty of room for 3 in the back, something like a BMW version of the Ford S-MAX or VW Touran with more style and BMW values.
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      05-29-2011, 04:17 AM   #26
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I can't see the sense in making the M2 a 4-cylinder and I don't believe that is going to become reality. I think its probably a lie to increse sales of the current model 135i and 1M coupe. Actually I thinking of getting one, just in case I am wrong!!

* The market demands a 6-cylinder sports car.
* M2 is not a high volume model, and I doubt there is much difference in fuel consumption.
* The F20 series chassis can fit a 3.0 litre six.
* BMW tradition has been built on 6-cylinder engines, and they have always been wonderful engines.

How can it possibly make sense not to give the buyers what they want?!?
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      05-29-2011, 04:19 AM   #27
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Slightly dumbfounded by the announcement. Let me try to repeat what I heard:

1M -> M2, still RWD, but lesser weight and turbo 4.

Now what is this M-one and Z2??!?!? I am sure BMW is well aware that Porsche is pipelining a smaller Cayman/Boxster as well therefore in response to that BMW will release a Z1? Z1M in addition to Z2 FWD, which is going to be what? A cooper s on steroid?



Quote:
BMW i and BMW M sharing technology would allow to build small cars to take on Porsche Boxster and Cayman
Based on F20/F30 platform, yet an exclusive M model
Although in no way moving forward but currently in the realm of ideas.
with the Z2 now joining the FWD family , The original proposed Z2 which went to the final stages before the car was switched to the FWD programme.
Is effectively reborn in this project.
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      05-29-2011, 05:14 AM   #28
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All exciting news.

Glad that the 2002 is in some way coming back as a 2 Series. I reckon thats pretty awesome I remember many years ago before the 1 Series even existed of the rumours of a 2 Series small coupe - it will finally be realised in a lightweight form

However, the switch for the Z2 to become FWD is absolutely disgraceful. BMW risks the reputation of the Z2 of being similar to that of the Z3 had as being a bit of a soft sports car. I'm actually really upset about this - I thought we were recently promised that the new FWD BMWs would not get in the way of producing cars we really truly love and lust after.

BMW M and BMWi collaboration is certainly very exciting - full carbonfibre construction with high-revving BMW 4 cylinder engine sounds extremely exciting to me!!!
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      05-29-2011, 05:14 AM   #29
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Scott - does this mean no more 135i? No more six cylinder 1 series?
If so what will the biggest four be?
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      05-29-2011, 06:25 AM   #30
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I am keeping my 1 series coupe if the replacement(2 series) is gonna look like that!! ewwwwwww
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      05-29-2011, 06:25 AM   #31
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I can't image the 2 series coupes & verts will be 6 cylinders unless the M2 is much lighter and turbo'ed out, thusly making it much faster. Even if this were the case, people would be very hesitant to pay more for a car with fewer cylinders, even if the output numbers are there.
The original 2002 had a two-liter four cylinder engine and was very successful due to light weight and good design. One of the complaints many had about the current 1-series when it debuted was that it didn't weigh much less than a 3-series. In order to lose any meaningful amount of weight, the option of an inline six would need to be dropped.

If the weight drops and the new generation of turbo fours make ~300 bhp or so, the car will be faster and handle better than the current generation. My Lotus Elise does just fine with four cylinders due to keeping the weight down. The current 1-series feels like a truck in comparison.

Another factor that will drive weight reduction and smaller engines is fuel consumption. The new CAFE requirements and continued increases in fuel cost will make cars that get EPA ratings in the teens less desirable in the future. If a four cylinder 2 series can match or beat straight line performance of the current 1 series, offer better handling and better fuel economy, I would think that people would "pay for a car with fewer cylinders". I know that I would.
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      05-29-2011, 07:18 AM   #32
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With the fear of 4's that the Chinese have, I will be very surprised if they make a 4 series..

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      05-29-2011, 07:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Very surprising to hear of a FWD BMW roadster. If BMW are serious about making a compact roadster they should move the drive train to the middle like the Toyota MR2, and MG-F!?!
Extremely disappointing. I was very excited for the Z2 now there is no interest because FWD.

And Z4 will just get bigger, heavier, and more expensive in the next version.
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      05-29-2011, 07:43 AM   #34
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they better put something more like the Z2 headlights or even the ones in the new 1er hatch on the 2 series... cause those round lights look like a piece of crap....

Stop it with the retro look .... I don't want a car that looks 30 years old...... like when you sit on a 2012 Ford Mustang and you need to look at that hidious interior from the 50's
+1 F those round headlights on 2-series. BMW thinks the mini cooper crowd will gravitate to a fun-loving 2-series? You cant mix sharp and round headlights like that on an otherwise nice German car.

Everyone suggesting BMW is going to too many models is absolutely correct.

I think this thread has more bad news in it than the one about the 3-series and M models.
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      05-29-2011, 08:01 AM   #35
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Looks like 4 cylinder only in the F20/F22, which has been my belief for a while. I don't see why BMW could not produce an N20 variant with close to 300 RWH and significant weight reductions through the use of lightweight body and suspension components. Throw in the lightweight 6 MT from the 1M. If it was light enough, what's not to like about it?

As for FWD cars, Mini has proven that premium FWD is a go.
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      05-29-2011, 08:21 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
I can't see the sense in making the M2 a 4-cylinder and I don't believe that is going to become reality. I think its probably a lie to increse sales of the current model 135i and 1M coupe. Actually I thinking of getting one, just in case I am wrong!!

* The market demands a 6-cylinder sports car.
* M2 is not a high volume model, and I doubt there is much difference in fuel consumption.
* The F20 series chassis can fit a 3.0 litre six.
* BMW tradition has been built on 6-cylinder engines, and they have always been wonderful engines.

How can it possibly make sense not to give the buyers what they want?!?
m2 = 4 cyl
m3 = 6 cyl
m5 & m6 = 8 cyl

Makes perfect sense.

* The market demands a 6-cylinder sports car.

Where did you get that information?
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      05-29-2011, 08:56 AM   #37
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Either way, we might be on to something here. I wonder what they were eating...


How does BMW take their Z2 w/a seriously bright future, then just end up dropping the kid off to FWD Collage? Just ridiculous!

Disappointing we have to spend 60K [for a decent RWD 2-seater Roadster] on the over-sized Z4 over this FWD quasi sports car.

I hope 2 series coupe/convert doesn't look like that, because people already think the styling is retarded as it is.

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      05-29-2011, 09:00 AM   #38
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Fwd roadster? What a joke lol:
No thanks
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      05-29-2011, 09:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augenbrauezug View Post
* The market demands a 6-cylinder sports car.

Where did you get that information?
My comment is based the popularlity and reputation of 135i coupe. The N54 is a very capable engine with broad responsive power. Can a 4 cylinder match the smoothness? Can it match the same power delivery? Will it be as durable for the M2 as a car intended for track use?

Personally I wouldn't be prepared to pay as much for a 4 cylinder. To me it seems like a bit of a "toy car". I think many others will agree.
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      05-29-2011, 09:12 AM   #40
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The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster. The Z2 might be rechristened Z1.

The Z2 effectively beckons the return of the Z3. With the next Z4 moving to become the Z5. Z3 is something BMW are wanting to return to because the name was hugely popular when the car was launched in 1995 , despite its ancient platform and mechanicals. Customers in droves bought the new Z3 and in certain parts of the world , Z3 waiting lists were up to two years long.

The Z3 name has always been earmarked for return.
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      05-29-2011, 09:53 AM   #41
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The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster. The Z2 might be rechristened Z1.

The Z2 effectively beckons the return of the Z3. With the next Z4 moving to become the Z5. Z3 is something BMW are wanting to return to because the name was hugely popular when the car was launched in 1995 , despite its ancient platform and mechanicals. Customers in droves bought the new Z3 and in certain parts of the world , Z3 waiting lists were up to two years long.

The Z3 name has always been earmarked for return.
Scott, the enthusiasts feel slapped in the face by the Z2 being FWD - clearly it seems BMW is favoring sales volume over quality sports car with a Z3-like cult following.

We don't want a BMW miata, don't want a BMW S2000, we as you said, want the rebirth of the Z3, its intimate size, its great handling.

A few weeks ago I was starting to think Z2 was axed altogether because of BMW silence, now with its picture on the front page of bimmerpost I celebrated, but FWD has crushed any dreams of a nice small BMW roadster (and maybe coupe).

I see that the Z2 may not have any 6 cylinder offering, and I'm ok with that - would work fine in a small car, but for the love of spirited driving, make the Z2 RWD.
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      05-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #42
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Scott, the enthusiasts feel slapped in the face by the Z2 being FWD - clearly it seems BMW is favoring sales volume over quality sports car with a Z3-like cult following.

We don't want a BMW miata, don't want a BMW S2000, we as you said, want the rebirth of the Z3, its intimate size, its great handling.

A few weeks ago I was starting to think Z2 was axed altogether because of BMW silence, now with its picture on the front page of bimmerpost I celebrated, but FWD has crushed any dreams of a nice small BMW roadster (and maybe coupe).

I see that the Z2 may not have any 6 cylinder offering, and I'm ok with that - would work fine in a small car, but for the love of spirited driving, make the Z2 RWD.
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      05-29-2011, 10:10 AM   #43
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That said, they better pull their head out of their *** while they can, and just put xDrive on the Z2, so it will drive like a proper BMW!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Z2 is a smaller concept now than before , now it is using the more compact modular UKL Platform.
The Z2 will now share the platform with the next generation of MINI Coupe and Roadster.
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      05-29-2011, 10:42 AM   #44
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The sad part is both the Miata and S2000 are guess what, RWD!

BMW wishes a FWD Z2 will drive well like a Miata, or even a S2000. Well, actually, BMW wishes they could build a roadster like Miata.
In fact, the Miata is THE benchmark for entry level roadsters. It has been praised by people world wide for over 15 years. I really can't imagine a FWD Z2 can even touch the MX-5 Miata in price and performance.

By performance, i don't just mean engine displacement or HP output. drive-ability, handling, fun factor are all part of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
Scott, the enthusiasts feel slapped in the face by the Z2 being FWD - clearly it seems BMW is favoring sales volume over quality sports car with a Z3-like cult following.

We don't want a BMW miata, don't want a BMW S2000, we as you said, want the rebirth of the Z3, its intimate size, its great handling.

A few weeks ago I was starting to think Z2 was axed altogether because of BMW silence, now with its picture on the front page of bimmerpost I celebrated, but FWD has crushed any dreams of a nice small BMW roadster (and maybe coupe).

I see that the Z2 may not have any 6 cylinder offering, and I'm ok with that - would work fine in a small car, but for the love of spirited driving, make the Z2 RWD.

Last edited by han405; 05-29-2011 at 10:54 AM.
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