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      12-13-2012, 06:08 AM   #23
ovekvam
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Petrol is also better for cold climates and short trips.
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      12-13-2012, 07:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JonF1982 View Post
There's also the residual value to think about throwing another spanner in the works.

to throw another spanner in the works, there's the cost of a replacement DPF for those who do drive short journeys in a diesel, too!
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      12-13-2012, 07:33 AM   #25
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hufc2002 I agree with most on here, its not worth the cost differential to swap for what seems to be two near identical cars: also - your car looks fantastic in the estoril! After a tough decision between that colour and the Valencia i went for the more unsual - both are stunning in the m-sport styling tho!

At the time of ordering mine, i test drove a 116i in estoril blue in m-sport from whats probably your nearest dealership (stockton?). I was impressed with what the engine could do, but afterwards i got back into what at the time was a 2.0TDi CR VW Golf GT Mk 6 and felt that the golf felt alot nicer to drive: yet i am a big fan of the low end torque that diesel provides so maybe im biased.

I enjoyed the engine note in the petrol, but inorder to get it to feel fast the rev needle never left the upper area of the rev range and obviously the fuel consumption went the other way. The dealership threw the keys at me and let me have the car for an hour, so i gave it a good test on mixed routes: you could ask if they still have it? I then sourced a 120d over in durham for a test drive and it hands down beats that of the 116i IMO and felt alot more refined than my 140ps diesel engine in the golf (which was also a fantastic engine). Im sure the 118d wont be far from this in comparison - yet i have no experience with it.

What id say is - ask the stockton dealership if they have one for you to test drive to put your mind at ease. Also, I'll keep an eye out for you on the roads as im down that way regularly, theres not many m-sports around! Similarly, If you see one in Valencia Orange flying over the A19 tees flyover - theres a high chance that'll be me!
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      12-13-2012, 07:40 AM   #26
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What id say is - ask the stockton dealership if they have one for you to test drive to put your mind at ease. Also, I'll keep an eye out for you on the roads as im down that way regularly, theres not many m-sports around! Similarly, If you see one in Valencia Orange flying over the A19 tees flyover - theres a high chance that'll be me!
not with your windows down though, else you'll be nabbed for being intoxicated [ex smoggie here]
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      12-13-2012, 07:48 AM   #27
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not with your windows down though, else you'll be nabbed for being intoxicated [ex smoggie here]
haha, lol. Im originally from cheshire (almost manchester) so looks like we swapped locales!
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      12-13-2012, 07:57 AM   #28
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Depends how many miles you do. New efficent petrol engines will work out more cost effective if you're doing less than 10,000 miles a year as you never make back the extra cost in buying the diesel in the first place.

At 10,000 to 12,000 a year there is very little in it either way. Over 12,000 you wan't a diesel.

Obvioulsy only by properly breaking down the figures with a calculator and knowing the MPGs and having a fixed price for fuel (which we wont ever have) could you know exactly, but that's a rough rule of thumb i go by.

There's also the residual value to think about throwing another spanner in the works.

I agree, we must crunch the whole ownership numbers, to see where the petrol vs. diesel costs merge and/or cross over.

I've just moved from a 330d to a 535i and the fuelling cost is the least of the issues, at about 8k miles per year. For me, it is about 10% more to fuel the petrol 535i. That is 2 - 3 pence per mile. Which is really nothing in the grand scheme of things, whether a 3.0d or 3.0i, where the real running costs for either are in the region of 1 per mile.

Changing cars and how we do it, (like new vs. nearly new) is where the real cost comes in. The OP will pay heavy just to change engine type, if he goes ahead, whatever the difference in engine characteristics or change in fuel costs.

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      12-14-2012, 05:26 AM   #29
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I have the 118i and the main reason I choose for the petrol version was that I do mostly short trips.

My friend has a F20 118d and when I drive his car I always think that it's faster, because of the "push" you get in the beginning of the acceleration.
With the petrol version acceleration feels more gradual and smooth
We have done some sprints from 0-120 km/h and my 118i always wins.
But I still think that the sensation of accelerating is more noticeable in the 118d.

But never forget that the reason why the F20 is such a fun car, is the almost perfect weight distribution, rear wheel drive, steering feel, etc...
It's not just the engine, so switching to a petrol engine is not worth the extra money.
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      12-14-2012, 05:39 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenN View Post
hufc2002 I agree with most on here, its not worth the cost differential to swap for what seems to be two near identical cars: also - your car looks fantastic in the estoril! After a tough decision between that colour and the Valencia i went for the more unsual - both are stunning in the m-sport styling tho!

At the time of ordering mine, i test drove a 116i in estoril blue in m-sport from whats probably your nearest dealership (stockton?). I was impressed with what the engine could do, but afterwards i got back into what at the time was a 2.0TDi CR VW Golf GT Mk 6 and felt that the golf felt alot nicer to drive: yet i am a big fan of the low end torque that diesel provides so maybe im biased.

I enjoyed the engine note in the petrol, but inorder to get it to feel fast the rev needle never left the upper area of the rev range and obviously the fuel consumption went the other way. The dealership threw the keys at me and let me have the car for an hour, so i gave it a good test on mixed routes: you could ask if they still have it? I then sourced a 120d over in durham for a test drive and it hands down beats that of the 116i IMO and felt alot more refined than my 140ps diesel engine in the golf (which was also a fantastic engine). Im sure the 118d wont be far from this in comparison - yet i have no experience with it.

What id say is - ask the stockton dealership if they have one for you to test drive to put your mind at ease. Also, I'll keep an eye out for you on the roads as im down that way regularly, theres not many m-sports around! Similarly, If you see one in Valencia Orange flying over the A19 tees flyover - theres a high chance that'll be me!
Cheers for this mate. Im in Hartlepool and bought mine at Stratsones in Wallsend. Walked out of Cooper Teesside after they faield to acknowledge me!

I have decided that I am definitley keeping the F20 and now glad I opted for the 118d over the 116i. Like I said earlier, the miles I cover makes it more suitable to me and plus even on these cold days, im still averaging 57mpg. Would get no where near that in the 116i.

Will keep an eye out for you on the roads but I travel North up the A19 for work.
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      12-14-2012, 08:04 AM   #31
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I don't get this recurring argument of petrol beeing beneficial over diesel when doing short trips? I do loads of short trips where the engine is barely even heated up before I turn it off again. Exactly what problems am I supposed to experience?

I'm having the same driving patterns as with my previous petrol-car and they behave the same way... There is only one difference I can notice, it's the fact that I have to wait a staggering 1-2 seconds for the engine to start after I press the start-button when it's cold outside

who knows, perhaps there has been issues with diesels and short trips in history but they don't seem to apply these days, I'm doing my second winter now with the 120d, no problems so far.

Imo diesel vs petrol is only about personal preference. What kind of engine character one prefer, how many kms you do, whether mpg is of any importance, engine sound etc. Those kind of factors. hufc2002 I think you've done the right decision. Keep your car with your mind at ease
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      12-14-2012, 08:10 AM   #32
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I don't get this recurring argument of petrol beeing beneficial over diesel when doing short trips? I do loads of short trips where the engine is barely even heated up before I turn it off again. Exactly what problems am I supposed to experience?
Cold interior, drained battery, and clogged crankcase ventilation.
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      12-14-2012, 08:26 AM   #33
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Cold interior, drained battery, and clogged crankcase ventilation.
I don't experience cold interior, I can't say I notice any difference regarding this compared to my previous petrol-car(s) in similar outside-temps doing the same distance with all cars.

Drained battery; haven't seen anything indicating this so far

clogged crankcase ventilation. Might be, haven't checked. Might be on petrol-versions aswell then. I had a peugeot once, petrol, produced tons of clogg-mess. Feels like that has got more to do with the design of the crankcase ventilation in general.
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      12-14-2012, 08:38 AM   #34
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If the interior isn't cold, it is probably electrically pre heated, which usually drains the battery if you drive mostly short trips.

I know some people who sell aftermarket parts to BMW owners in Norway, and they sell tons of crankcase ventilation parts to diesel car owners.
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      12-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #35
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yup, think it's electric pre-heater in all bmws nowadays, if there was no help from an extra heater the engine would have seriously problem getting warm and there would defenitely be cold as hell in the car. That's the "problem" with modern deisels, so efficient that almost no energy is wasted generating heat. Anyways the electric heater works and it does not drain the battery. I guess they solved that problem. I guess the generator does a good job... it feels like the engine-braking is pretty massive when driving away on a cold morning, rolling down a hill in gear, so maybe the generator puts a pretty heavy load on the engine. I don't know. All I know is the engineers were smart enough to come up with a working solution. Don't think bmw would sell diesel-cars if all of them got stranded during winters due to battery-drain (at least the short-trip drivers).

Anyways I wouldn't be scared to go for diesel, untill there is some hard facts provided. No offense but a rumour of someone selling alot of crankcase-ventilations parts to bmw diesel-owners isn't enough to convince me.
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      12-14-2012, 09:56 AM   #36
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My experience is mostly from the previous generation BMWs like E87, E90 and E60. I know a lot of owners through the Norwegian BMW club, and there has been quite a lot of issues with these when you get the combination of cold winter and short trips. I hope the engineers have sorted out most of it now, since my 116i has a lot of the same technology as in the the turbo diesels.... :-)

Last edited by ovekvam; 12-14-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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      12-14-2012, 12:11 PM   #37
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My experience is mostly from the previous generation BMWs like E87, E90 and E60. I know a lot of owners through the Norwegian BMW club, and there has been quite a lot of issues with these when you get the combination of cold winter and short trips. I hope the engineers have sold most of it now, since my 116i has a lot of the same technology as in the the turbo diesels.... :-)
Big issues with diesels in the UK when used for short trips and what we term the school run. Not just BMW, but across the manufacturers.

Winter doesn't help either, with slow engine warm up times on diesel engines. All a bit of a gamble, but DPF issues, crankcase ventilation blockages, EGR problems, VGT (VNT) vane seizures, and a lots of carbon in the engines all fit the short trip, cold use.

Petrol engines are not ideal for this use either, but do stand a better chance of longevity without issues.

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      12-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #38
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Cold interior, drained battery, and clogged crankcase ventilation.
and potential DPF failure
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      12-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #39
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Well i will report back for sure, if there is issue i have no probs telling the facts. If someting is fucked up i'm the first to report. I'm no fan-boy in that sense. If something is fucked up i have no probs to reporting it.. Of course only driving short trips all the time would kill any engine for sure, petrol or diesel
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      12-15-2012, 04:51 AM   #40
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My Uncle has just handed back his Golf 1.6tdi dsg after a 3 year lease. He does 4k miles a year and has had major dpf issues with the car and with engine management lights. Dealer pointed out that in their sales brochure small print it states diesel models are not suited to short journeys.
This time he's gone for a 1.2tsi petrol.

Cheers
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      12-15-2012, 05:35 AM   #41
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My Uncle has just handed back his Golf 1.6tdi dsg after a 3 year lease. He does 4k miles a year and has had major dpf issues with the car and with engine management lights. Dealer pointed out that in their sales brochure small print it states diesel models are not suited to short journeys.
This time he's gone for a 1.2tsi petrol.

Cheers
Lee
my friend has a golf 1.6 TDI CR as a company car (2010 model) and does 25000 miles a year (seriously) and she had DPF issues twice, and my other mate has an audi A1 with the same engine and he needed a DPF clean after 10k - could be VW's DPFs?

i must admit my dad has a volvo V50 1.6 driveE (ford engine) with a DPF and drives hardly any miles in it - and he's not had a peep of trouble after nearly 3 years now
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