[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Subnasty

Dude trust me, If i would be still livin in states i would be also driving V8's, and not give a f*ck about gas price!
So i hear you on the bigger engines, but you gotta keep in mind that your average gas price is half the price from the ones i get here, plus average salary in PL is maybe one of a third from what your getting...

stupid economy

In Norway we have pretty good salaries, but the cars with bigger engines have extreme taxes, so we still struggle to afford them. That is why the 116 is the common choice here.

Besides, our speed limits are rather low, so high power engines are wasted anyway.

[Darthartur]

Same here in Israel. Extreme taxes, high fuel prices doesn't matter so much for someone who can drop 100 grand (that's right 100000 bucks) for M135i.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

So I guess you never drive your X6 fast?

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Where's the fire?No worries.


Cheers
Robin

[ovekvam]

Since this is the F20/F21 forum, it should be more appropriate to complain about the looks of an M6 than the F20/F21, our favourite car...

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

Since this is the F20/F21 forum, it should be more appropriate to complain about the looks of an M6 than the F20/F21, our favourite car...

The same thing happened when the E82 1M started dominating the press last year.

Like all BMWs the F20 has slowly started growing on me. When I first saw an E82 I swore I'd never get one.

Now look at me.

[DDS2015]

I really wish we got the F20/F21 in Canada. I think it would actually do very well here. If its priced competitively with the VW Golf it would do extremely well. I would love to add either an F20 or F21 128 xdrive with the 8 speed auto to my stable. I think it would make an excellent highway cruiser and would get easily 40+ mpg highway.

BMW should bring it over as an experiment to see how the NA market would react to it to expand it to the US. But since the Canadian market is smaller its less of a gamble. Hopefully once the free trade agreement between Canada and the EU is in place we'll start to see them because import taxes will be negligible.

[MaDoNiOn]

Originally Posted by daz415

It may have a great engine but its such an ugly car!

I agree

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by b33g33

The same thing happened when the E82 1M started dominating the press last year.

Like all BMWs the F20 has slowly started growing on me. When I first saw an E82 I swore I'd never get one.

Now look at me.

Same here. BUT: I already drove a E87 120d for half a year back in 2004. Excellent chassis , superb roadholding/steering.

Many of us now have to get used to the F20/21 headlamps/front. With the M package and a nice colour(I ordered Estoril Blue) it just looks good imo.

Cheers
Robin

[BostonBeemah]

Originally Posted by aajami

But I would always choose a lower specced car with a better engine over a higher specced car with a lesser engine...

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

In Norway we have pretty good salaries, but the cars with bigger engines have extreme taxes, so we still struggle to afford them. That is why the 116 is the common choice here.

Besides, our speed limits are rather low, so high power engines are wasted anyway.

Out of curiosity, are the extreme taxes on the bigger engine cars only when you purchase one new, or does it also apply to used cars with bigger engines? I suspect it is an annual tax that is still high on older cars with bigger engines. If that is the case, wouldn't that make the resale value of used cars with bigger engines worse because people wouldn't want to pay the higher taxes?

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Out of curiosity, are the extreme taxes on the bigger engine cars only when you purchase one new, or does it also apply to used cars with bigger engines? I suspect it is an annual tax that is still high on older cars with bigger engines. If that is the case, wouldn't that make the resale value of used cars with bigger engines worse because people wouldn't want to pay the higher taxes?

You only pay the tax once per car. If you import a second hand car, you also have to pay this tax, but it is fortunately reduced with the the age of the car, pretty much at the same rate as the typical loss of value. Annual taxes are not higher for powerful cars.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by Subnasty

Dude trust me, If i would be still livin in states i would be also driving V8's, and not give a f*ck about gas price!
So i hear you on the bigger engines, but you gotta keep in mind that your average gas price is half the price from the ones i get here, plus average salary in PL is maybe one of a third from what your getting...

stupid economy

Absolutely. I wasn't intending to be insensitive to your position. Gas prices are already insane over here, and I'm sure that I would be singing a very different tune if they were anywhere near what you have to pay.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by DDS2015

I really wish we got the F20/F21 in Canada. I think it would actually do very well here. If its priced competitively with the VW Golf it would do extremely well. I would love to add either an F20 or F21 128 xdrive with the 8 speed auto to my stable. I think it would make an excellent highway cruiser and would get easily 40+ mpg highway.

BMW should bring it over as an experiment to see how the NA market would react to it to expand it to the US. But since the Canadian market is smaller its less of a gamble. Hopefully once the free trade agreement between Canada and the EU is in place we'll start to see them because import taxes will be negligible.

I think the reason that BMW isn't bringing the F20 and F21 to North America is precisely because it would do well. So well, in fact, that it would probably significantly cannibalize sales of the bread-and-butter 3-series.

It's perhaps a bit ironic that BMW now feels the need to bring an F26 (2-series Gran Coupe) to market in order to appeal to people who think the F30 is too large of a platform for their needs and aren't buying into a BMW this generation. I wonder if these people would have purchased an F20 or F21 if it was available. Speaking for myself, that answer would be yes.

Still, good news about the F26...

[rickk]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

You only pay the tax once per car. If you import a second hand car, you also have to pay this tax, but it is fortunately reduced with the the age of the car, pretty much at the same rate as the typical loss of value. Annual taxes are not higher for powerful cars.

It's exactly the same system in the Netherlands. Out of curiosity: Over here the tax was imposed to protect the local car industry (which has been non-existent for the pas 25 years), what was Norway's "excuse" ?

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by rickk

It's exactly the same system in the Netherlands. Out of curiosity: Over here the tax was imposed to protect the local car industry (which has been non-existent for the pas 25 years), what was Norway's "excuse" ?

There have been plenty of exuses, like cars being bad for the environment, but I think we all understand that the government simply wants more money.

[rickk]

ok, thanks

By EU regulation this tax is even illegal, so they're now changing it to a tax based on CO2 emissions, carefully and slowly to make sure they won't make any less money out of it.. but at least this makes more sense for the environment than a tax based on the price of the car.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

You only pay the tax once per car. If you import a second hand car, you also have to pay this tax, but it is fortunately reduced with the the age of the car, pretty much at the same rate as the typical loss of value. Annual taxes are not higher for powerful cars.

I see, thanks for the info. I wonder how old a used car with a bigger engine would have to be for the taxes to be similar to that of a new car with a small engine. It makes me curious if cars with bigger engines that are 2-5 years old would potentially be more popular to buy than a brand new car with a smaller engine.

[ozinaldo]

Totally with you guys in spirit and feeling but got to say this:

A tax by definition does not need to (and usually doesn't) make sense...to the payer!

History is governments create and re-define taxes according to their needs/plans/wishes. They need more money they will be more creative.

[KoenG]

Actually, the M135i is an amazing vehicle, ... comparable to the GTR. Never before we had access to this level of controlled power for this amount of money. Actually, the car doesn't have real weaknesses, and excels in domains that really matter. So bang for the buck is outstanding, just like refinement and efficiency while entirely practical as a daily driver. Love it!

[TreDirtyFive]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Actually, the M135i is an amazing vehicle, ... comparable to the GTR. Never before we had access to this level of controlled power for this amount of money. Actually, the car doesn't have real weaknesses, and excels in domains that really matter. So bang for the buck is outstanding, just like refinement and efficiency while entirely practical as a daily driver. Love it!

Although, for many, the aesthetic weakness is a big one.

[DDS2015]

Originally Posted by aajami

I think the reason that BMW isn't bringing the F20 and F21 to North America is precisely because it would do well. So well, in fact, that it would probably significantly cannibalize sales of the bread-and-butter 3-series.

It's perhaps a bit ironic that BMW now feels the need to bring an F26 (2-series Gran Coupe) to market in order to appeal to people who think the F30 is too large of a platform for their needs and aren't buying into a BMW this generation. I wonder if these people would have purchased an F20 or F21 if it was available. Speaking for myself, that answer would be yes.

Still, good news about the F26...

But in Canada we had the X1 for like 15 months before it was available in the US. We also have the 320i (F30) and we had the 323i for the E90. Neither the 323i nor the new 320i are available with xdrive, so they're relatively low volume sales units. You really dont see that many of them aside from as loaners. Basically what i'm getting at is that the F20/F21 probably wouldn't take too much away from the F30 if they got rid of the 320i.