BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > M135i RWD or 4WD
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #1
watchhok
Private
 
Drives: F20 135iA
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: the Netherlands

Posts: 79
iTrader: (0)

M135i RWD or 4WD

Is it gonna make a difference in the Netherlands? Or is it a real advantage?

Yes I go on winter holidays in de Alps once a year. Still doubting because I like RWD...

thanks for your reply's
watchhok is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2012, 02:23 PM   #2
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

The traction is of course better with AWD, but rarely an issue if you have top of the shelf winter tires.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #3
donaldt
Private
 
Drives: M135i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hong Kong

Posts: 78
iTrader: (0)

I used to drive a Z4 3.0 in Boston, where it snowed about 5 months a year, with proper winter tyres you will be fine
go RWD
donaldt is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2012, 06:22 AM   #4
Subnasty
Private First Class
 
Subnasty's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW F20 125i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: internet

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via Skype™ to Subnasty
who knows what is the power distribution in ix? 50:50 or 40:60
__________________
BMW 125i
Subnasty is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2012, 06:37 AM   #5
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subnasty View Post
who knows what is the power distribution in ix? 50:50 or 40:60
If you mean E30 325iX, it used to be 37:63. For new xDrive cars, it is continuously variable over a large range.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2012, 06:57 AM   #6
rickk
Private First Class
 
rickk's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 325i, E46 320d, F21 125i
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Netherlands

Posts: 167
iTrader: (0)

RWD (with winter tires) ofcourse.

Makes no sense to waste money/weight/ride height/fun on 4WD for the really small advantage you might have once a year.
__________________
2013 F21 125i Estoril Blue M Sport
2002 E46 320d Steel Gray M Sport
1986 E30 325i Royal Metallic Blue
rickk is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2012, 10:19 AM   #7
Pavit
Enlisted Member
 
Pavit's Avatar
 
Drives: Landrover
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mauritius

Posts: 38
iTrader: (0)

Doesn't xdrive (or 4wd per say) gives more grip and anti-slip capabilities to a car?

Like when driving on slippery wet roads, steep cornering, et al ?
Pavit is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2012, 10:28 AM   #8
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavit View Post
Doesn't xdrive (or 4wd per say) gives more grip and anti-slip capabilities to a car?

Like when driving on slippery wet roads, steep cornering, et al ?
You don't get more grip from having AWD, but you distribute the forward traction forces over several tires. This makes the car more stable, also in corners. The maximum cornering speed will still be the same.

When driving around ice tracks, you notice the AWD advantage mostly during acceleration out of tight corners. You can get a lot more power down.

The extra weight up front is a disadvantage at corner entry, so RWD cars can usually brake slightly later than the AWD version.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-11-2012, 04:11 AM   #9
KAIXIN
Registered
 
Drives: C300 Estate 4Matic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Switzerland

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subnasty View Post
who knows what is the power distribution in ix? 50:50 or 40:60
It is front 40 : rear 60, please see attached link
http://www.m-power.com/_open/s/varlink1.jsp?lang=en

It looks the x-drive edition for M135i is quite interesting as well. I am wondering for RWD, what kind of additional fun do we get in the daily driving experience - tail can dance in the rainy days? And in track, how does it compare to AWD?
KAIXIN is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-11-2012, 06:03 AM   #10
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAIXIN View Post
It is front 40 : rear 60, please see attached link
http://www.m-power.com/_open/s/varlink1.jsp?lang=en

It looks the x-drive edition for M135i is quite interesting as well. I am wondering for RWD, what kind of additional fun do we get in the daily driving experience - tail can dance in the rainy days? And in track, how does it compare to AWD?
Basically you get more traction and stability with AWD. RWD gives you a more tail happy car, and less traction interference in the steering. The added weight and drivetrain loss of the AWD system will take away a little bit of performance.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-11-2012, 03:19 PM   #11
KoenG
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E39 530i & F10 520d
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

pro's:
- way better traction, seen the massive beast the engine is.
- easier to handle during fast driving (less overpower risk).
- will be faster on low speed circuits or acceleration during massa transfers (cfr. leaving a roundabout, or a chicane) in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear.
- weight distribution is still ok.
- winter/snow compliant.

con's:
- 75kgs extra weight.
- a bit slower on high speed circuits.
- For the die hard fans of powersliding probably RWD is better.
- extra consumption, but very limited.

There is no difference in radial grip, since both cars have 4 wheels and the same tires.

Seen the delta in pricing in Belgium is incredibly small, I'd take it with Xdrive.
KoenG is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      11-11-2012, 05:31 PM   #12
BMW-RaceR
Private
 
Drives: 2010 Mini Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Norway

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

My point of view

RWD Pros:
-More fun and better to drive, summer AND winter
-Cheaper to buy
-Cheaper to run, more fuel efficient
-Lower weight - equals better driving experience and performance (braking "nimbleness", etc.)
-Better handling (and maybe better steering feel?)

RWD Cons:
-Should have an LSD and its not available as an OEM option.
-Could have problems with steep hills in rough winter conditions


AWD Pros:
-Better off-the-line-tracion
-Better traction (up winter hills) and stability, especially on low grip surface

AWD cons:
-Less engaging to drive
-More expensive
-Higher fuel consumption
BMW-RaceR is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #13
KoenG
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E39 530i & F10 520d
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

BMW RaceR, when you want effortless fast driving, I'd still go for the Xdrive.

When you drive the Xdrive, I'am certain you'll confirm it is much more foolproof and relaxing. Of course, not everybody associates an M135i with relaxing. But I guess that in +90% of all driving conditions, this prevails and determines the daily experience with the car.

Take note, it weights more, but the weight is favourable located: under the center of gravity. So it is not certain that it negatively impacts the composure/dynamics of the car during fast driving.

Besides, price difference between RWD+AT and Xdrive+AT is really ridiculous small, just like fuell efficiency impact.
KoenG is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #14
BMW-RaceR
Private
 
Drives: 2010 Mini Cooper S, 74 Beetle
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Norway

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

People have different view of things.
Someones effortless fast drive is another persons boring drive.
Relaxing= not engaging
Foolproof=compromised driving experience made for people who are not into driving

When reading car reviews:
Handles very safe on the limit: Extreme understeer
Safe handling when pushed: Understeers

I consider everything above 1400kg to be very heavy. 1300kg+ is also a bit on the heavy side. Some cars certainly hide their weight better than others, but on the same platform 75kg is a decent amount of weight. Especially when the car is already above 1400kg and you are used to lightweight cars.

I just prefer RWD over anything else. I see why some people prefer AWD, but its just not my choice.
BMW-RaceR is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 01:25 PM   #15
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Of course, not everybody associates an M135i with relaxing. But I guess that in +90% of all driving conditions, this prevails and determines the daily experience with the car.
But in 90 percent of the driving conditios you are probably driving too relaxed to benefit from the AWD anyway.

In slippery conditions, AWD feels safe, but that is also a risk. It is easy to drive too fast with a sure-footed car, considering that the AWD version doesn't stop any quicker than the RWD car...
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 01:40 PM   #16
dchao
Private
 
Drives: BMW X1 xDrive20d
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London

Posts: 65
iTrader: (0)

RWD + front engine = tendency to understeer.

This is why xDrive is useful, it will brake inner wheels and put more torque to the outer wheels, and therefore, dial in some over steering.

xDrive will make off-the-line acceleration faster, and cornering more secure. I think, the it should make this this M135i more exciting to drive.
dchao is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 02:01 PM   #17
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchao View Post
RWD + front engine = tendency to understeer.

This is why xDrive is useful, it will brake inner wheels and put more torque to the outer wheels, and therefore, dial in some over steering.

xDrive will make off-the-line acceleration faster, and cornering more secure. I think, the it should make this this M135i more exciting to drive.
RWD and front engine has nothing to do with understeer. You can set up a car like that to have no understeer at all. If the car weight is biased towards the front (like the AWD version), it will have a natural tendency to understeer.

And why is more torque going to the outer wheels with AWD? That doesn't make any sense to me.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #18
KoenG
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E39 530i & F10 520d
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

Is the Xdrive capable of torque vectoring to each wheel independantly like the Audi quattro sport set-up? When it is, there is no doubt: go for Xdrive all the way, including driving fun and sheer vehicle dynamics.

When I wrote "foolproof" and "relaxing", I meant that you can drive the holy smoke out of it, while it remains loyal to the traject you steer it in to. This under conditions where the RWD version has its' rear axle struggling for grip and you're on the verge of overpower, throwing the rear out, requiring instant counter lock to save your car.

There is no evidence that the Xdrive is more understeer, I believe that the center of gravity is moving a bit lower and a bit backward. Good conditions for even better dynamics!

Of course, +75kg is never good a thing, but maybe this is more than just compensated with the good elements that Xdrive brings.
KoenG is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #19
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Is the Xdrive capable of torque vectoring to each wheel independantly like the Audi quattro sport set-up? When it is, there is no doubt: go for Xdrive all the way, including driving fun and sheer vehicle dynamics.

There is no evidence that the Xdrive is more understeer, I believe that the center of gravity is moving a bit lower and a bit backward. Good conditions for even better dynamics!
I don't think the xDrive does torque vectoring, but the e-diff does this.

I don't understand how you mean the X-drive moves the center of gravity backwards. The center of gravity is usually between the front seats, and pretty much all the extra hardware for the AWD is located ahead of them.
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #20
KoenG
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E39 530i & F10 520d
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I don't think the xDrive does torque vectoring, but the e-diff does this.

I don't understand how you mean the X-drive moves the center of gravity backwards. The center of gravity is usually between the front seats, and pretty much all the extra hardware for the AWD is located ahead of them.
You're right, it moves it downwards, but also forwards, and that is not a good thing. My mistake!


But you're right, probably less dynamic behaviour then: The vehicle roll is a bit less, but the yaw will incline more to understeer like you wrote.
KoenG is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 05:08 PM   #21
ovekvam
Colonel
 
Drives: F20 116i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

Posts: 2,108
iTrader: (0)

But if you have a slightly front heavy car with a stable AWD system, the car can be tuned more towards oversteer with swaybars and spring settings to compensate. The car is probably set up towards understeer from the factory, but check out how nicely balanced the WRC rally cars are. With dedicated tuning, anything is possible...
ovekvam is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 06:41 PM   #22
KoenG
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E39 530i & F10 520d
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
man you are good
+1!

btw, didn't find anything about weight distribution F/R on the Xdrive on the web... Since the driveline is entirely longitudinal, the damage done could be very limited. Mass is much more concentrated around the center of the car than transversal mounted drivelines.
KoenG is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST