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      10-18-2012, 10:09 AM   #67
MartinHattingh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash83 View Post
There is a special place in Hell for whoever designed and approved those BMW headlights.
That's my opinion about E82/E87 headlights...
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      10-18-2012, 10:16 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkhana View Post
The question is to me as a buyer -
135 in E82 body or brand new M135 in F21 body ?
The things that i value are
- handling
- responsiveness
- power delivery
- emotions from driving
Thats it.
Chris made me think about my choise again.
whats on M135 side ?
- a tinny boosted engine
- mustBe///M///aLikeChassis (but i really doubt its something around it)
....pretty much it.
What an old 135 in E82 body can offer ?
- hydraulic steering system ,that provides extra road feel and such. As i had a compare with my current 328m-pack adaptive steering (the one m135 supplied with i belive) old hydraulic system feels like a kart driving it.
- second point comes out of first one. The way it reacts to the steering wheel. Just like a kart. Instant. Lighting fast. Confident.
- Really hard,harsh suspension. No fancy driving modes. Just you and a car.
Harder that M135 i belive.
- 7 speed double Clutch transmission with launch control. That said. Perfect transmission.
- Another point is that mechanical feel E82 has - its just you, hard steering wheel and DCT transmission that feels as much mechanical as an automatic ever could be. M135 felt like a toy the time i sat in. its exhaust note felt not a natural but a tuned one. Its steering feel. I only had a chance to start it and experience it in parking lot, but its steering is really nothing alive compare to E82 hydraulic one.
Overall impression was like its all synthetic, unalive, plastic dummie car. Must be new-gen. m-tuned car , but old one brings more sport.
Any ideas guys ? )
So far, i see nothing M135 can offer over older 135 E82.
I can't take you seriously because you're so far off base on the most basic of specs.. then engine of the M135i! It's a tuned N55, same as you'd get in an E82 135i.

Good news for F30 335i owners, the upcoming PPK should give the N55 the exact same performance specs as what's in that M135i that Harris reviews in the video.
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      10-18-2012, 10:27 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Why is the electric steering inferior on paper when it comes to feel?

The car manufacturers have had several decades working on the hydraulic assist, while the electric setup is a bit new to them. It will just take a while before they dial it in perfectly. I see no reason why it should not be at least as good as the hydraulic solution.

Among FWD cars, the Mini gets quite a lot of positive feedback about the steering. It is electric.

Among new sports cars, the Subrau BRZ / Toyota GT86 is praised for the telepathic steering. It is also electric.

PS: I forgot one imporant feature the F20 has, that the E82 is missing. When the DSC is switched off, the E82 has no limited slip differential. The F20 uses the brakes to simulate one.
First, the E82 never had a "limited slip differential" anyway, just e-diff on certain models which applies to brakes and that is not the same thing as a real lsd. If you mean the 1M, it always has it on tap (the variable M diff, same as a E9X M3) regardless of DSC on/off or MDM modes.

About the steering feel, those cars you mention are slightly different category (I would call them sporty cars rather than sports cars) than what I mentioned before (Porsche Boxster and 911) and sorry but I am yet to hear any respected independent reviewer claiming that the new electric steering units are as good or better than old hydraulic units in hard core sports cars. Getting close but...I do agree in time engineers should be able to perfect them though, not sure if that happened yet.
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      10-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I can't take you seriously because you're so far off base on the most basic of specs.. then engine of the M135i! It's a tuned N55, same as you'd get in an E82 135i.

Good news for F30 335i owners, the upcoming PPK should give the N55 the exact same performance specs as what's in that M135i that Harris reviews in the video.
Right, he doesn't make sense on that point, same N55 engine.

I wouldn't expect the PPK equipped F30 335i performing exactly that good as this M135i though, there is a serious weight difference between them (F30 85 kg. heavier, manual to manual gear box, according to German BMW web site). That's a big fat block.
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      10-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
First, the E82 never had a "limited slip differential" anyway, just e-diff on certain models which applies to brakes and that is not the same thing as a real lsd. If you mean the 1M, it always has it on tap (the variable M diff, same as a E9X M3) regardless of DSC on/off or MDM modes.

About the steering feel, those cars you mention are slightly different category (I would call them sporty cars rather than sports cars) than what I mentioned before (Porsche Boxster and 911) and sorry but I am yet to hear any respected independent reviewer claiming that the new electric steering units are as good or better than old hydraulic units in hard core sports cars. Getting close but...I do agree in time engineers should be able to perfect them though, not sure if that happened yet.
The E82 (non 1M) had the e-diff only when the electronics (DSC/DTC) was enabled. The new thing about the F20 is that it has an e-diff when the DSC/DTC is switched off. It is not as good as a real LSD, but it is a lot better than only an open differential.

I have read several reviews about the Toyota GT86 that raves about the steering. The car was built for the optimum driving experience, and I am pretty sure Toyota/Subaru tested both hydraulic and electric steering in the prototypes. They chose electric, and it works. And the GT86 is just as hard core as a Boxster. It even has a real limited slip differential! :-)
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      10-18-2012, 10:42 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Right, he doesn't make sense on that point, same N55 engine.

I wouldn't expect the PPK equipped F30 335i performing exactly that good as this M135i though, there is a serious weight difference between them (F30 85 kg. heavier, manual to manual gear box, according to German BMW web site). That's a big fat block.
I should have worded that better. I mean the F30 engine (with PPK) will have the same performance specs: 326HP, 332lb-ft of torque, as the M135i engine. Actual car performance, of course, could vary.
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      10-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
The E82 (non 1M) had the e-diff only when the electronics (DSC/DTC) was enabled. The new thing about the F20 is that it has an e-diff when the DSC/DTC is switched off. It is not as good as a real LSD, but it is a lot better than only an open differential.

I have read several reviews about the Toyota GT86 that raves about the steering. The car was built for the optimum driving experience, and I am pretty sure Toyota/Subaru tested both hydraulic and electric steering in the prototypes. They chose electric, and it works. And the GT86 is just as hard core as a Boxster. It even has a real limited slip differential! :-)
You are giving me ideas. Just 2 weeks ago there was an international auto show here in Santiago with more than 50 brands participating. Toyota/Subaru twins were also present and I assume they are going to sell them here soon, maybe already started. Should go and ask for a test drive and see it myself I was not crazy about the looks in person though. Liked the styling (especially interior) of new Mercedes A series, that was the surprise of the show for me. Future AMG version can be tempting for many.
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      10-18-2012, 11:08 AM   #74
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Awesome review. I will probably completely ignore my repulsion of the M135i's looks and buy one since in every other respect it's perfect. Manual for me, thanks. Not bothered about 0.2 sec and all that launch control nonsense. And seating position is critical, how low was Chris sitting?! If I want an high sitting position, I'll buy an SUV, thanks!
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      10-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #75
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Speaking of the FR-S/BRZ/86 and Chris Harris did you guys see his review? He's absolutely giddy over the twins.

Calls it the car that he's been waiting for.

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      10-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Future AMG version can be tempting for many.
True that, although depend heavily on cost. Quite possibly it'll be quite a bit higher than the M135i. For many in the real world, this is the primary deciding factor. Waiting with baited breath!
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      10-18-2012, 11:11 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscecc914 View Post
Speaking of the FR-S/BRZ/86 and Chris Harris did you guys see his review? He's absolutely giddy over the twins.

Yes, but for those addicted to boost the Toyobaru's disappoint
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      10-18-2012, 11:16 AM   #78
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That audi is such a joke.. It's just embarassing to put out an RS model, which is supposed to be THE audi, the highest performing version. RS means "racing sport" (english translation), so you would expect to get a car that handles great, as the RS title suggests. Instead you get a car that understeers, then understeers and at the end you get some more understeer, I mean wtf? That is just blasphemy.
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      10-18-2012, 12:48 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinHattingh View Post
That's my opinion about E82/E87 headlights...


majority of people disagree with you about the E82, and agree that new F20 headlights are notoriously ugly. just go and read the comments on posts when the F20 was announced and when the E82 was announced. and Yes I will trust the reviews of people on this forum because they are true BMW enthusiast.
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      10-18-2012, 01:36 PM   #80
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both 1er gens have shitty front headlight design. I admire Chris' work. It's very good. But that M135i sounds like pure sex!! The RS is really disappointing.
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      10-18-2012, 02:08 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash83 View Post


majority of people disagree with you about the E82, and agree that new F20 headlights are notoriously ugly. just go and read the comments on posts when the F20 was announced and when the E82 was announced. and Yes I will trust the reviews of people on this forum because they are true BMW enthusiast.
I remember a lot of negative comments about the lights on the E81 when it was introduced. People seems to have gotten used to them, though. Seems to be happening with the F20 as well, particularly after the M-Sport front was introduced.
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      10-18-2012, 03:40 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post

Among new sports cars, the Subrau BRZ / Toyota GT86 is praised for the telepathic steering. It is also electric.

PS: I forgot one imporant feature the F20 has, that the E82 is missing. When the DSC is switched off, the E82 has no limited slip differential. The F20 uses the brakes to simulate one.
I drove the GT86 as it should be and at that time I would have bought it if I wasn't so dissapointed in the steering. It wasn't bad, just it wasn't the USP as I had hoped for, I imagine it was very good when compared to a "normal" car with electric assist... but not special for a sportscar.

The E8X did have a brake activated e-LSD on the 123d, 130i FL and the 135i. I.e. it was active even with DSC and DTC switched off. Worked fine in snow and greasy wet, but not progressive at all in the dry...
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      10-18-2012, 03:59 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onehp View Post
The E8X did have a brake activated e-LSD on the 123d, 130i FL and the 135i. I.e. it was active even with DSC and DTC switched off. Worked fine in snow and greasy wet, but not progressive at all in the dry...
Really? I drove a 123d, and it seemed to be one wheel drive once I disabled the DSC completely. In DTC mode it had better traction, but too much stability intervention. I was also passenger in a 130i FL on a track, and the driver claimed it was the same story there.

BMW made a point in one the tech articles about how the e-diff feature was now also available without DSC/DTC on the F20.

Maybe it is different between the markets?
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      10-18-2012, 04:00 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I remember a lot of negative comments about the lights on the E81 when it was introduced. People seems to have gotten used to them, though. Seems to be happening with the F20 as well, particularly after the M-Sport front was introduced.
I remember that SOME people did not like the 1 series when it was introduced because it looked weird from some angles especially side angles. but never heard of anyone complaining about the headlights especially on the 135i with the Bi-Xenon
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      10-18-2012, 04:30 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Right, he doesn't make sense on that point, same N55 engine.

I wouldn't expect the PPK equipped F30 335i performing exactly that good as this M135i though, there is a serious weight difference between them (F30 85 kg. heavier, manual to manual gear box, according to German BMW web site). That's a big fat block.
Ok i putted it wrong.
What i ment is that its an old N55 engine E82 has , just tuned up a bit. Thats it.

What about hydraulic vs electronic steering systems -
you , guys , named some really nice cars using electonic steering, like BRZ and so on, BUT.
///M cars are still supplied with hydraulic system. 1M , M3. Even the latest M5.
Why ? the answer is that its more precise and accurate. And gives u the road feel you can't compare to electronic one.
PS And yeah,as someone mentioned above - E82 has the same system paired with DSC simulating the LSD work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I think the seats and the brakes are better. The suspension is also better balanced (less oversteer and understeer), which could be seen as both an advantage or disadvantage, depending on your driving style.

The steering column is directly connected to the rack both with hydraulic or electric assist. The F20 steering is even quicker than the E82 steering, and no less precise. The steering feel is different, but it is pretty much just a matter of getting used to.

The lights are very good. I have the adaptive Xenons, and they are awesome on dark and twisty roads.

The track is wider, which should give you more grip in corners.
Seats remained the same, except its stitching form ,probably )
Brakes - i really doubt they made it any better than old brembo 6 piston brakes. My optional M-sport 4 piston brakes on 328 are times worse, than that. There is a guess , that they do fit the same break system on M135.
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      10-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #86
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Quote:
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Yes, but for those addicted to boost the Toyobaru's disappoint
I suspect we'll see a boosted version at some point. There have been rumors of an STi model of the BRZ using a more powerful turbocharged version of the engine.
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      10-18-2012, 07:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Two reasons:
The biggest one is that the 1 US gallon equals roughly 1.2 UK gallons. And the other is that M135i has 8 gears where yours has 6 or 7 depending on your transmission. I suppose gas quality could be a factor too, but it would not be a significant as the other two.
Thanks for answering my question lol. btw does m135i come with an intake? it sounds sooooo nice compare to my car.
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      10-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #88
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Driving scenes here kind of boring, but makes clear that bimmer looks better with angel eyes lit!
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