BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Leaked: FWD 1 Series Compactive Tourer Tail Light Design
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      09-01-2012, 07:03 AM   #23
EnI
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RWD small & compact cars are compromised. Due to RWD layout the cabin & boot space is affected, and many European customers find eg 1er a turn-off due to limited space & practicality. Meaning - compared to FWD counterparts - 1er is very family-unfriendly.

And especially in Europe premium market is in trend of downsizing. People want premium product even in the tiniest car segment (size-wise).

An why offering vehicles like minivans, miniSUVs, ultraminis, compact hatches etc? To get new customers -the ones who have never purchased a BMW car before. And attracting new customers to the BMW family means there are greater chances those people (and their family members, neighbors, friends etc) buy another BMW sometimes in their life.

Sure the BMW minivan won't drive like 1er/2er Coupe, but will still be the ultimate driving machine in its segment. Yes, some people even want to drive more sporty - even in minivan segment. That's why eg. some prefer Ford minivan over VW minivan.

All these upcoming FWD BMW vehicles are aimed @ European markets mainly. But for all of you who prefer a hatch / fastback shape, sporty character & RWD ... there is something new coming for you in the future, guys ... badged as 2-Series. Since 2er won't be offered in coupe & cabrio variants only. You can expect various RWD 2ers in the future.

Think VW Golf vs VW Scirocco, Hyundai i30 vs Hyundai Veloster, etc.


PS:
Especially in Germany BMW, Audi & MB aren't considered a luxury, but a premium. Audi, MB & BMW sales trails only behind VW sales there. All three selling more cars (each brand, not combined!) more than Ford, Opel, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat etc, not to mention Korean & Japanese brands. And even in total European sales Audi, BMW & MB sales are enormously high compared to other (even economy!) brands - with sales just behind VW, Opel, Renault, Citroen & Peugeot. And even ahead of Fiat, Skoda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Mazda, Honda etc.
Expect many of FWD BMW cars won't make it in US market (except for next gen X1, X2 etc).
And majority of BMW vehicles (all from incl. 2er & beyond) will still be RWD, with optional AWD on most series.

Last edited by EnI; 09-01-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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      09-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
I dislike that BMW keeps putting non-LED's in the pre-lci and then LED's in the LCI. They should just embrace it and go all LED on all cars...
+1 I think they just keep the same routine like this all the time because people still buying BMW no matter what...
Agree with u Johnny ...
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      09-01-2012, 10:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Then how would they provide upgrades for the LCI models?
By changing the styling of the taillight, LED before, LED after, just different shapes and/or designs...

------

To all of those *****ing again about FWD BMW's, there has been a FWD BMW out for YEARS, *cough* Mini *cough.*

Mini = FWD
Mini = Fantastic
Mini = BMW

Therefore

A FWD BMW will be Fantastic, GTFOver it...
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      09-01-2012, 11:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Then how would they provide upgrades for the LCI models?
By changing the styling of the taillight, LED before, LED after, just different shapes and/or designs...

------

To all of those *****ing again about FWD BMW's, there has been a FWD BMW out for YEARS, *cough* Mini *cough.*

Mini = FWD
Mini = Fantastic
Mini = BMW

Therefore

A FWD BMW will be Fantastic, GTFOver it...
I for one agree with you and don't see what the knee jerk foul cry over BMW doing FWD on its compact 1er.

FWD handling can be great and lots of fun too. Heard of the little 1.8L car called the ITR? Is that kind of car for me now? Nope, been there done that and have moved on but doesn't mean BMW should lose out on that market segment and draw those people at that stage of their car "career" into the brand and keep them for life. I know many stay with VW, Audi because of their "first love" was VW Golf. Get the picture?

BMW is a whole range car company, NOT like Aston, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Others already pointed out the packaging drawback on RWD compact for those with practicality in mind.

Will I buy a FWD BMW? Not for myself but maybe for my wife as she resumes driving and she prefers small yet stylish SPORTY (not sports) cars. MINI Cooper S is her current top choice, so if the 1er drives as well (or even better) and has better (in her opinion coz it's her car) interior and options than the MCS, then we'll be getting the 1er over MCS.

That's an real example of why BMW is doing this. End of story.
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      09-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #27
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There are a lot of good points in this post. I think the reason so many people are upset, is because BMW is acting like a hypocrite.

For several decades now they have told us, preached to us, and basically indoctrinated us, to believe and to feel that rearwheel drive is the ultimate way to drive a vehicle.

Now, to simply make extra money, they are abandoning all that they preached about simply for the sake of dollar bills.

This would be like a preacher, becoming a pornographer, or a thief or a bank robber or a criminal.

They are going against everything they said made their vehicles superior to everybody else's vehicles, and many people see that as hypocritical.
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      09-01-2012, 12:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy
There are a lot of good points in this post. I think the reason so many people are upset, is because BMW is acting like a hypocrite.

For several decades now they have told us, preached to us, and basically indoctrinated us, to believe and to feel that rearwheel drive is the ultimate way to drive a vehicle.

Now, to simply make extra money, they are abandoning all that they preached about simply for the sake of dollar bills.

This would be like a preacher, becoming a pornographer, or a thief or a bank robber or a criminal.

They are going against everything they said made their vehicles superior to everybody else's vehicles, and many people see that as hypocritical.
What you said about BMW in this matter can be true only if:

BMW stops making RWD altogether and makes only FWD

and

one has been naive enough to only have driven BMW because of what they "preached"

Another example from a different industry but also of hot debate. I have only bought iPhone as my personal smartphones since 3G, now using a 4S. I am given Blackberry from work, use it only when I HAVE to, absolutely hate it. Have not really used any Andriod phone, have only played in stores or friends', I would love to give it a real go but it just hasn't happened for me yet. My point? Just because I've been iPhone user (some may think that makes me a fanboy), doesn't mean I have to listen to what that brand pushes; use my own observation and judgement to choose the device/car that suits the need and desire.
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      09-01-2012, 12:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
There are a lot of good points in this post. I think the reason so many people are upset, is because BMW is acting like a hypocrite.

For several decades now they have told us, preached to us, and basically indoctrinated us, to believe and to feel that rearwheel drive is the ultimate way to drive a vehicle.

Now, to simply make extra money, they are abandoning all that they preached about simply for the sake of dollar bills.

This would be like a preacher, becoming a pornographer, or a thief or a bank robber or a criminal.

They are going against everything they said made their vehicles superior to everybody else's vehicles, and many people see that as hypocritical.
+1 now lets see whether the closet BMW fans like the one who posted before you get the picture.
By that did you refer me? One of "the closest BMW fans"? I am not sure what you mean by "closest BMW fans"... :

At any rate, I just posted in response to Fraggy and your response crossed. Assuming you are actually trying to label myself a BMW fan boy, to that I will respond:

I just bought my 2nd BMW in my life after 10+ cars (lost count!). E46 325i 5MT and now E92 M3. I am probably fan boy of just my E92 M3 and am keenly curious about BMW products and racing development but not a fan boy of BMW in general. I will probably jump into a suitable p-car in a heartbeat, think GT3 heehee... prob not just a regular 911.

You may think I am "defending" anything BMW but no, I am just stating the validity in BMW making compact FWD and I stated to the effect that those cars are not for everyone - not for me either. So that can't possibly make me a fan boy by any definition. In fact I don't get their GT directions and absolutely hate the 5er GT as a car but doesn't make me feel I need to weep about that thing has the same roundel badge my M3 has.

My point to you, don't label people after just seeing one post from them. Read, listen and observe.
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      09-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #30
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A couple of years ago the CEO of BMW made a comment that the majority of 1 series owners thought the car was FWD.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...-think-its-fwd

That might not say much for the research that most people put into their choice of a new car but more people understand "There's less space than in a..." than "Unlike the rest of the class/segment the car is rear wheel drive".
I suspect there's a few people who if you said RWD to would think that's where the steered wheels were. To many it's what they can see and touch that matters rather than the oily bits underneath.

For cars where space is needed FWD can offer advantages in the packaging. BMW have been able to use the experience of MINI over the last decade to develop what should be an effective FWD platform from a handling viewpoint, although it will be interesting to see what happens with the weight distribution.
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      09-01-2012, 01:32 PM   #31
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Too much cult attitude with BMW owners. It's a business, and a business must cater to the market to survive. A couple of FWD cars giving BMW a huge opportunity for growth in Europe will not take anything away from all of their RWD products they will continue manufacturing.

I don't see anything wrong with the new F10 M5, new 6 series, the gran coupe, or the new 3 series. I do see general improvements in most fields.
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      09-01-2012, 06:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgaffney004 View Post
The more stupid models BMW makes... The less it's quality will be.. I mean seriously, has anyone sat in the new x1 or 3 series?!?! The materials feel like they were purchased at wal-mart... Soo sad

...I was surprised when I went to my local dealer to check out the ( what looked amazing in pictures) I was all excited to feel the "Fine-wood trim 'Fineline Pure' textured" option as it was 3D and matte.... sadly the fit and finish was very poor particularly in the door pulls where the gap between "wood" and black was large and felt very poorly made... my excitement to get this trim in a 4-coupe was dissipated...
.
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      09-01-2012, 06:30 PM   #33
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The haters are just making me laugh now... oh well...

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      09-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Just because you read something and think it is rubbish, doesn't make it so, just so you know.
Like reading about Obama being a communist?
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      09-02-2012, 06:34 AM   #35
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FWD - sucks! Not a true BMW, stick to the winning formula RWD!
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      09-02-2012, 06:45 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbw
FWD - sucks! Not a true BMW, stick to the winning formula RWD!
+1 Hellyeah!
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      09-02-2012, 07:18 AM   #37
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Do u think Ppl who ll buy this ugly tall boy designed bimmer will care about if it's FWD or RWD.....
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      09-02-2012, 02:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilwilliams View Post
A couple of years ago the CEO of BMW made a comment that the majority of 1 series owners thought the car was FWD
Funny, I keep hearing this story but no one I know (myself included) was ever asked, "So, for shites and giggles, I just want to know do you think your 1-series is FWD or RWD?"

Was this a survey administered to a select number of dealers? Was it asked after the customer accepted or declined the clear-coat or wheels & tire package? Where does this 80% come from?
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      09-02-2012, 02:46 PM   #39
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When I heard the story, it was not 1 series owners, but 1 series drivers! :-)
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      09-02-2012, 06:59 PM   #40
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Unfortunately, this is a sign of the times.

All car manufactures want to keep or gain market share, so they build cars to suit not only the current market, but also have to build for future market trends.

The current trend is for small compact (city) cars or small cross over ones (AWD).

If BMW had stuck to 'The ultimate driving experience' they would have stuck to their original car size of the early 5 series only. The rest would not be here.

Fortunately for us, BMW looked to the future and built some fantastic cars in many sizes and model configurations that we enjoy today.

I heard a 7 series owner who was looking at a new 7er at my dealer say "Why would anyone want something that small" when looking at the 3er and 1er on the showroom floor. Each to his own.

Personally, I would not consider a front wheel drive car, however you have to consider that over the past 20 years the vast number of people have only ever driven FWD cars as they are the only type of cars available in the lower price brackets.

So consider, Audi started it recently with the A1 and now these people are being tempted to spend a little more money and move up to a 'quality' FWD car. BMW is reacting to the market.

Also you have to take into account that some brands like Hyundai have raised the stakes for small and medium cars by trying to copy the upper class car makers like Merc, BMW and Audi in style and material finishes.

Even though Hyundai and other car makers are not there yet, I am sure that the German car makers are all very wary of this, and see these new market segments as nescessary if their want their brand to be recognised by all buyers and achieve sales growth.
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