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      08-13-2012, 04:37 PM   #23
vladberca
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M Sport 1 series looks great in my opinion and has a distinctive design...
Also this 1 series it's unique in this segment having RWD and future x-drive, great basic 1,6l petrol engines (116i and 118i) and the possibility to choose from a long list of options.
120d has no rival in this segment, 125d can be considered somehow a Performance model.
The cherry on the cake is for sure M135i, a car that can't be matched in performances by its rivals
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      08-13-2012, 04:39 PM   #24
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The design of 1 series is more masculine
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      08-13-2012, 05:20 PM   #25
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^ It looks good
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      08-13-2012, 06:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
M Sport 1 series looks great in my opinion and has a distinctive design...
Also this 1 series it's unique in this segment having RWD and future x-drive, great basic 1,6l petrol engines (116i and 118i) and the possibility to choose from a long list of options.
120d has no rival in this segment, 125d can be considered somehow a Performance model.
The cherry on the cake is for sure M135i, a car that can't be matched in performances by its rivals
Yes indeed, the F20 is a fantastic car that is standing out the crowd. The 125d and M135i are unmatched by anything in the market today! Every F20 has the (almost) 50/50 weight distribution which still makes it the ultimate and probably only genuine real drivers' car in the segment. I reckon it's blessed with a lot of supreme qualities. For all of this, I want it in a single heart beat. But who am I?

This having said... the FWD crowd has also some high cards to throw on the table: more space efficient than RWD, more forgiving behaviour on the limit and the typical draw backs are compensated extremely well these days: torque steer and understeer are almost gone. Of course, no 125d and M135i competitors in sight yet, or 4wd has to come into play. When AWD is needed, aces are vanishing: cars become more heavy & more expensive. So when high performance is a must and things must remain affordable, nothing matches RWD.

Case remains... why, oh why these design flaws that are soooooo easy to avoid? All the first day facelift photoshop pictures where better than the real face. Why on earth could a professional team of +30 top designers couldn't do it better over a timespan of +4 years when design is not yet definitive!? Why could a top EVP board at BMW could not avoid this???

For God sake, even my 3years old son says it has ugly headlights! We already lived the Bangle affaire with the terrible budds of the 7 and 6 series, why do we need the Adriaan Van Hooydonck misery now? Are there no good designers anymore? Who is designing the Ferraris then these days? Buy the guy, now and immediately!
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      08-14-2012, 02:31 AM   #27
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It's a never ending discussion....First you should have in mind that we are still in a global economical crisis, and many countries are in still ressesion. Since the 1 series is also a relatively expensive car, even though the price has been reduced, this will have an inpack on BMW's sales figures.
But ofcause BMWs car design are not just copies of competitors designs, but instead they try to come up with new ideas....since they often make radical design changes with each of thier new generation of cars, the release of a new car design will always lead to discussions..but also a lot of attention on the street as well..
Just like the prevous model, people just need a little time to get used to a completely new design. Also BMW's designs tends to be more 'future proof' I think.
So, if your are affraid to buy the 1.series, because you are affraid to buy a car that you think only few people wants or like, I think you should just probably just go for the safes choice on earth , go buy a VW....

Last edited by heder; 08-14-2012 at 04:47 AM.
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      08-14-2012, 02:47 AM   #28
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It's a newer ending discussion....First you should have in mind that we are still in a global economical crisis, and many countries are in still ressesion.
But ofcause BMWs car design are not just copies of competitors designs, but instead they try to come up with new ideas....since they make radically design changes with each of thier new generation of cars, the release of a new car design will always lead to discussions..but also a lot of street attention as well..
Just like the prevous model, people just need a little time to get used to a completely new design. Also BMW's designs tends to be more 'future proof' I think.
So, if your are affraid to buy the 1.series, because you are affraid to buy a car that you think only few people wants or like, I think you should just probably just go for the safes choice on earth , go buy a VW....
touché for the VW hint! Concerning the "getting used to" that a lot of members seem to share: the Bangle droopy 7-series front and end never grew on any body either. You loved it, or you hated it... all the way, until the very end. I hope it is different for the 1-series fish bowl headlamps, but I remain sceptical. My bed is it will be corrected on the 2-series and the facelift. I believe that many on this forum are hoping for this.
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      08-14-2012, 05:01 AM   #29
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touché for the VW hint! Concerning the "getting used to" that a lot of members seem to share: the Bangle droopy 7-series front and end never grew on any body either. You loved it, or you hated it... all the way, until the very end. I hope it is different for the 1-series fish bowl headlamps, but I remain sceptical. My bed is it will be corrected on the 2-series and the facelift. I believe that many on this forum are hoping for this.
Again, I agree, it's all a matter of taste. I was a little sceptic too, also regarding the design of the head lamps. First I was going for the previous 3.series ie. 320i, but it somehow did look a little boring inside, and the fuel economy seemed to be 'stone-age' like compared the capabilities of the newest generation of high-efficient motors on the market. So I though, well why not just give it a try in the new 1.series....Just a little joy ride... After driving only a few miles down the road, I was 100% convinced, the driving experience was top-class for a car in the price range...This totally removed all my doubt of this car. I'm happy that I didn't go for one of the previous and older models...It's just the same with girls, don't go for the old ones...
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      08-14-2012, 06:49 AM   #30
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These discussions about pro or contra F20 design are meaningless and going in circles. The same arguments all the time.
This is a forum of enthusiasts. Don't like it - don't buy it.
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      08-14-2012, 06:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Superspeed View Post
These discussions about pro or contra F20 design are meaningless and going in circles. The same arguments all the time.
This is a forum of enthusiasts. Don't like it - don't buy it.
+1


Thank you sir!
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      08-14-2012, 11:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Superspeed View Post
These discussions about pro or contra F20 design are meaningless and going in circles. The same arguments all the time.
This is a forum of enthusiasts. Don't like it - don't buy it.
An enthusiast is not necessarly blind, although some are, I admit. This is cognitive dissonance: everybody can see the flaws objectively but you deny them when you are getting too closely involved.

Well, I see what happens when I buy my own within a couple of years. The design is entirely NOT important to me. It should have been important for Adriaan and his design team. But apparently it wasn't either.
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      08-14-2012, 02:47 PM   #33
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this whole thread is pretty much pointless now. quite clearly you are not sold on F20 design and keep bringing it up in every post. just do us all a favour and don't buy it. F20 design has been mentioned in dozens of previous post and quite frankly is becoming tiresome since your discussion doesn't say anything that hasn't been said before. car is a huge sales success whether you like it or not. thanks for your contributions and concerns and for a design that is not Important to you, is strange that you seem to be highlighting it in every post
Yes you're entirely right, It's pointless to discuss this all over again things are what they are and complaining about it will not make any change. My apologies to you all to keep hitting that nail again. I realise I offend owners and enthusiasts of one of the finest cars out there, although that's not my intention. My frustration remains however.

Any way, the question has been answered a while back: F20 is a sales success. I just hope it remains like that when A3 and A-class are hitting the road. The car deserves to have long lasting succes and keep high residuals later. I'll shut up now ...
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      08-14-2012, 02:54 PM   #34
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that dreaded word again: FWD 1 series
It is still going to happen.... So get over it!
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      08-14-2012, 04:01 PM   #35
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so that is the FWD 1 series in your profile picture then ? anyway we would see it in few weeks time. nothing to get excited about for us here . I suppose we won't even bother to open a separate thread for FWD 1, as it is not worthy of BMW badge . also interesting to see that BMW second quarter profit was much lower than the year before, I assume a lot of those extra expenses on R&D that was mentioned in your reports has something to do with this upcoming FWD model. let's hope that is not going to translate into spending cuts on main models like 5 series and 3 series since you have to keep your shareholders and accountants happy by keeping the costs down to maximise your profit
Sol, you best open a new thread for this, nice debate in the make! RWD versus FWD, that has to be a spiced up discussion! Also, I hope they have fixed some of the exterior flaws that I hardly dare to mention here of course.
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      08-14-2012, 04:27 PM   #36
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Thanks guys, that will be a nice one to read through! I saw it when it was launched but somehow lost track.

Not like you Sol, I think BMW does the right thing to go FWD with the chassis of the paceman, they can combine things they couldn't combine before! anyway, I jacked my own thread just now.
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      08-14-2012, 05:01 PM   #37
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so that is the FWD 1 series in your profile picture then ? anyway we would see it in few weeks time. nothing to get excited about for us here . I suppose we won't even bother to open a separate thread for FWD 1, as it is not worthy of BMW badge . also interesting to see that BMW second quarter profit was much lower than the year before, I assume a lot of those extra expenses on R&D that was mentioned in your reports has something to do with this upcoming FWD model. let's hope that is not going to translate into spending cuts on main models like 5 series and 3 series since you have to keep your shareholders and accountants happy by keeping the costs down to maximise your profit
It all depends on who is interested in such a concept and I am sure that there will be people here that could be interested and perhaps there will be an influx of would-be first time BMW owners who migrate to BimmerPost for more information?
It is up to the moderators to whether they will showcase the details of the concept as it is entirely BMW related I see no reason why they should not.

Profits may be down at the current time but for an independent company like BMW you have to spend money in order to make money , and that is exactly what they have done to support their future. If you look back when others were spending money on vanity projects inlcuding some which were renowned disasters , BMW focused on EfficientDynamics.

BMW had a two year advantage over Audi and Mercedes-Benz on the integration of efficiency measures. The same goes for current expenditure the combined MINI/FWD architecture for example is deemed to support 600,000 units of combined MINI and BMW FWD cars.
Then you have the CFRP venture with SGL Carbon which in prospect will spread to the next generation of BMW's starting with the 7er , again BMW will have the advantage because they are moving to volume production of CFRP. And then you have the BMW i initiative.

Again the CFRP is integral to the cars that will spearhead the brand but the budget is not just about the cars and manufacturing. The inititive covers not only the technology and network but also infrastructure. BMW know that the infrastructure such as charging points etc are integral to the success of the BMWi brand. And that they are currently working on making sure that infrastructure is available in many key locations and markets by the time the
i3 is launched in 2013. That is one of the key surprising things about BMWi they are not waiting for someone to take that initiative to accomodate. They are rocketing ahead with contractors to make sure BMWi owners do not face the limited resources as some EV's available today.

You may mock my terms of "revolutionary" but that is exactly what BMW do , create the extraordinary out of the ordinary in order to fullfill its goal.
You might hate the idea of a FWD BMW Compactive Sports Tourer but there are people out there , looking forward , possibly for the first time to have a BMW that is suitable, spacious and affordable for my family and then they will multiply. That entire segment is growing within Europe and with a projected increase of 45% BMW could take 10,20 or even 30% of that market.
Which is important because the CST is a vehicle that will make money for BMW.

Then we can move onto the challenges of the next decade.
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      08-14-2012, 06:32 PM   #38
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It all depends on who is interested in such a concept and I am sure that there will be people here that could be interested and perhaps there will be an influx of would-be first time BMW owners who migrate to BimmerPost for more information?
It is up to the moderators to whether they will showcase the details of the concept as it is entirely BMW related I see no reason why they should not.

Profits may be down at the current time but for an independent company like BMW you have to spend money in order to make money , and that is exactly what they have done to support their future. If you look back when others were spending money on vanity projects inlcuding some which were renowned disasters , BMW focused on EfficientDynamics.

BMW had a two year advantage over Audi and Mercedes-Benz on the integration of efficiency measures. The same goes for current expenditure the combined MINI/FWD architecture for example is deemed to support 600,000 units of combined MINI and BMW FWD cars.
Then you have the CFRP venture with SGL Carbon which in prospect will spread to the next generation of BMW's starting with the 7er , again BMW will have the advantage because they are moving to volume production of CFRP. And then you have the BMW i initiative.

Again the CFRP is integral to the cars that will spearhead the brand but the budget is not just about the cars and manufacturing. The inititive covers not only the technology and network but also infrastructure. BMW know that the infrastructure such as charging points etc are integral to the success of the BMWi brand. And that they are currently working on making sure that infrastructure is available in many key locations and markets by the time the
i3 is launched in 2013. That is one of the key surprising things about BMWi they are not waiting for someone to take that initiative to accomodate. They are rocketing ahead with contractors to make sure BMWi owners do not face the limited resources as some EV's available today.

You may mock my terms of "revolutionary" but that is exactly what BMW do , create the extraordinary out of the ordinary in order to fullfill its goal.
You might hate the idea of a FWD BMW Compactive Sports Tourer but there are people out there , looking forward , possibly for the first time to have a BMW that is suitable, spacious and affordable for my family and then they will multiply. That entire segment is growing within Europe and with a projected increase of 45% BMW could take 10,20 or even 30% of that market.
Which is important because the CST is a vehicle that will make money for BMW.

Then we can move onto the challenges of the next decade.

I do believe the CST and also CFRP are the ways to go, but is BMW convinced they should proceed with the 'i'? I read now that worldwide, electrical vehicles have failed and the opportunity is lost seen lack of political initiatives.

I also read BMW is venturing with Toyota to re-launch the hydrogen stuff they where so intens about 5 years ago? It was toned down then since no political dare and leadership either. So is BMW still fully behind the i then?
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      08-15-2012, 06:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Superspeed View Post
These discussions about pro or contra F20 design are meaningless and going in circles. The same arguments all the time.
This is a forum of enthusiasts. Don't like it - don't buy it.
I totally agree on that!!!
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