BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > 1 and 3 Series paintwork quality...
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      08-01-2012, 12:08 PM   #1
airblade550
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1 and 3 Series paintwork quality...

With many owners of the F20 reporting various degrees of, "Orange peel" effect, a recent review of the new 3 series estate in the Sunday Telegraph this week, (UK Newspaper), headlines with a paragraph commenting on the quality, (or lack of it), of the finish of the F30.... Seems we are not alone....

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      08-02-2012, 02:15 AM   #2
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Orange peel

Orange peel, color and metalic pigment distribution and oriantation...that's all is a big issue if you're running efficient and ecologic paint process. BMW is investing a lot into color and appearance measuring/adjusting, much more then common european brands. Know this very well, cos it's my job.

Unfortunately, to be first in new technology doesn't mean to have great results at the same time.

If I compare my F20 to Lexus IS250 ('06) that I had before, it's a huge difference in appearance too.
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      08-02-2012, 03:10 AM   #3
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I have a friend who is a professional detailer (and a very good and reputable one). He detailed my car (as well as many other cars) and when I asked him about the quality of the paint he said to me that: ''it is not as it used to be, but it is definetely much better than the rest of the brands that use same water based and eco colours''

My new F20 had already orange peels and some hazy points, and he did a minor polishing.
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      08-02-2012, 04:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Fanis View Post
I have a friend who is a professional detailer (and a very good and reputable one). He detailed my car (as well as many other cars) and when I asked him about the quality of the paint he said to me that: ''it is not as it used to be, but it is definetely much better than the rest of the brands that use same water based and eco colours''

My new F20 had already orange peels and some hazy points, and he did a minor polishing.
That's true, if you'll compare bmw with other eu brands painted with same application technology and material base, it's still on top. BMW has very strict tollerances for gloss, structure, color, pigment effects, cloudiness in production.

But you can't compare to pneumatic application of solvent borne system.
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      08-02-2012, 06:28 AM   #5
airblade550
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Well being "green and ecological" is all very well but all i know is that my neighbours 10k Kia has both better shine and smoother finish than the F20 I paid 3x more for. Come to that so does every Audi/VW in the street...

BMW are simply not providing a finish that a high end car and owners deserve. If there are limitations in the process they are using they should be open about it.

The paint is there for two main reasons... To protect and enhance... When my neighbour and i compare finishes, i certainly do not feel that the present paint finish enhances what is a otherwise quality product
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      08-02-2012, 06:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by airblade550 View Post
Well being "green and ecological" is all very well but all i know is that my neighbours 10k Kia has both better shine and smoother finish than the F20 I paid 3x more for. Come to that so does every Audi/VW in the street...

BMW are simply not providing a finish that a high end car and owners deserve. If there are limitations in the process they are using they should be open about it.

The paint is there for two main reasons... To protect and enhance... When my neighbour and i compare finishes, i certainly do not feel that the present paint finish enhances what is a otherwise quality product
You're right.
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      08-02-2012, 08:03 AM   #7
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OK guys, you should also consider that many hydrocarbon based paints and particulary clearcoats when exposed to harsh conditons of either cold or heat (hot here) will deteriorate within 5 years.

The type of polymer based paint BMW, Porsche, Audi etc use are designed for these extremes, and the surface is more resistant to web and abrasion, so when your 1er is that age it will still look as it does today, the Kia will not.
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      08-02-2012, 08:27 AM   #8
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OK guys, you should also consider that many hydrocarbon based paints and particulary clearcoats when exposed to harsh conditons of either cold or heat (hot here) will deteriorate within 5 years.

The type of polymer based paint BMW, Porsche, Audi etc use are designed for these extremes, and the surface is more resistant to web and abrasion, so when your 1er is that age it will still look as it does today, the Kia will not.
All the eu car manufacturers has the same oem paint suppliers (basf, dupont, ppg + some minor small ones). So if your Kia is produced in eu (SK, CZ) then it gets the moreless same material as F20. The only difference is in application process.

The other thing is if you have car that comes from Asia, because it's painted with coating produced there (Nippon, Kansai, DBC, ...). And because all coatings are tested, then the asian coatings are better adjusted for environmental conditions there (more acid rain because of air polution, higher temperatures, different insect, etc...). Also, asia has more free eco conditions for coatings and application.

So, then could happen, that your new Kia or Lexus looks little better when new then your new F20, but during the next 3 years it will be equal or even worse (because of cracking at very low temperatures, because of poor resistance against eu insect and many other factors).

But this discussion is pointless, because 99% of users will destroy coating on their new car with incorrect maintanance
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      08-02-2012, 09:35 AM   #9
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Honziss, what exactly is your work? I am in paint robotics, but I work for a company not involved in painting the F20 in Regensburg. We are present in some other BMW factories.

Funny you should mention orange peel, since our car is ordered in Valencia Orange! :-)
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      08-02-2012, 10:58 AM   #10
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Honziss, what exactly is your work? I am in paint robotics, but I work for a company not involved in painting the F20 in Regensburg. We are present in some other BMW factories.

Funny you should mention orange peel, since our car is ordered in Valencia Orange! :-)
www.byk.com

We're making additives and measuring instruments (also the wave-scan for orange peel ). I'm in the instruments division. Who you're working for?
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      08-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #11
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I am a field service engineer for ABB Robotics, Paint.
I think we have had robots at BMW with your kind of sensors on.
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      08-02-2012, 05:16 PM   #12
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I am a field service engineer for ABB Robotics, Paint.
I think we have had robots at BMW with your kind of sensors on.
Yes, we do a special models called BYK-mac Robotic and wave-scan Robotic, that are attached on the robot and measurements are done automatically. BMW is one of the few users of our Robotic systems.
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      08-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #13
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Good to see that the paint boys are conferring. Yes BMW do put a bit extra effort into production of their cars.
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      08-12-2012, 09:54 AM   #14
airblade550
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As a result of a minor scrape in a car-park, I visited my local BMW approved Paint and Body repair specialists.

Whilst they assured me that the colour match would be as good as new, they could not assure me that the finish, (with respect to the orange-peel present on the factory finish), would match the new paint...

They simply cannot paint the cars as "BAD", as they do in the factory with regards to the finish quality. The only way to minimise the issue of the new, (high quality, smooth), finish that would be present after they had painted the door, would be to blend the paint into the other door and rear wing.

It was explained to me that whilst, "blending" of the new and existing finishes is not unusual, its required more so with the latest BM's due to the amount of orange-peel on the factory finish...

They also mentioned that whilst they "could" produce a finish closer to the factory finish, none of their technicians would happily compromise their skills to do so... And this I do respect... However why they should need to on a 30k car begs belief...

This is certainly my last BMW...

Last edited by airblade550; 08-12-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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      08-12-2012, 01:48 PM   #15
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Mondeo paint may look better at day 1, lets talk again in 2yr, and again in 7yr and again in 10yr, and see if the Mondeo still has paint alltogether.
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      08-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #16
airblade550
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Mondeo paint may look better at day 1, lets talk again in 2yr, and again in 7yr and again in 10yr, and see if the Mondeo still has paint alltogether.
Yes have heard that point of view many times... So, the mondeo starts out lookin better then turns to crap but the bmw starts out crap an dosnt get any worse! Funny, but that really dosnt make me feel any better...!

Plus the fact is that most new cars are only kept by their orig owners for 2-3yrs these days, i want my 30k motor to look good from day one!!!
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