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      08-08-2012, 05:32 AM   #45
cawimmer430
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Originally Posted by wolz View Post
cawimmer430, you obviously have a car that does not suit you. One that doesn't correspond to your needs. There are plenty of cars available that would suit you better.
Like I said, I inherited the car from my sister.

I would never have bought a 1-Series simply because it's to impractical in the big picture for my needs. RWD is something I don't need nor is it something that excites me. Between a BMW 1-Series and say a Volkswagen Golf Variant (wagon), I'd look at the overall practicality and take the Golf wagon for example simply because it has more space for rear passengers and a larger luggage compartment.

From BMW an X1 or X3 or a 3er Touring with AWD would have been more practical for me (although I find the 3er Touring has a very small luggage compartment when compared to the S204 Mercedes C-Class for example).

Again, I love my 118i, I really do, but from a practical point of view it's handicapped because it's a small car with RWD. That's not a slap against BMW or the 1-Series, just a FACT.

By the way, Auto Motor und Sport is reporting that the facelifted X1 will no longer be RWD but become FWD with AWD being optional.
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      08-08-2012, 06:23 AM   #46
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the dreaded G word

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Originally Posted by Empowered View Post
Like the 5GT perhaps?
Now, Now, let's not start something else we won't quite finish
http://www.6post.com/forums/showpost...5&postcount=46
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721596
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      08-08-2012, 07:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by cawimmer430 View Post
By the way, Auto Motor und Sport is reporting that the facelifted X1 will no longer be RWD but become FWD with AWD being optional.
The facelifted X1 is for sale now and it is RWD or AWD (xDrive)....maybe AMS is reffering to the next generation and not the facelift model.
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      08-08-2012, 08:22 AM   #48
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Eat your words:
"That's why we don't have front wheel drives"
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      08-08-2012, 10:07 AM   #49
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      08-08-2012, 03:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sommer
Eat your words:
"That's why we don't have front wheel drives"
We should spam BMW's email with those ads when they unveil it at Paris.
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      08-09-2012, 02:35 AM   #51
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I inherited a ferrari enzo from my grandma. It is really poor when going off-road and it's really not enough room for the family, the dogs and the skiing-gear to fit when we go on our yearly vacation to the alps. Ferrari really ought to change their cars to solve all those issues... or maybe I should trade the enzo for a toyota landcruiser I don't know...hm...nah that doesn't make sense... ferrari should change the concept, that's logical

sorry for beeing an asshole, just mocking about
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      08-09-2012, 02:51 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by wolz View Post
I inherited a ferrari enzo from my grandma. It is really poor when going off-road and it's really not enough room for the family, the dogs and the skiing-gear to fit when we go on our yearly vacation to the alps. Ferrari really ought to change their cars to solve all those issues... or maybe I should trade the enzo for a toyota landcruiser I don't know...hm...nah that doesn't make sense... ferrari should change the concept, that's logical

sorry for beeing an asshole, just mocking about
Hilarious and true, with no disrespect to our friends here.
The 1series is what it is.
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      08-14-2012, 05:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
I do not get this at all. What in god's name would someone desire a FWD car for? What would a FWD give you that an all wheel drive would not? BMW should stick to RWD and AWD. Why would they need a fwd???
In the lower segment, FWD means: cheaper, more spacious and more "idiot" proof for the none die hard car enthousiast spending his weekends on burning rubber in powerslides like we do.

Golf GTi and more recently Focus ST to name only two prove there is nice balance potential uptil the hot hach level. So why not? AWD is always more expensive, heavier and reducing driveline efficiency. FWD will be good uptil 118i and 120d level.
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      08-14-2012, 05:07 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by aajami View Post
While it's good that BMW is finally realizing that the market wants smaller and lighter cars, not bigger and heavier machines (hello, F30), it's a sad day when it expects people to be excited over a FWD platform.
We (enthusiasts) will probably not, but +80% of prospects will. You can not believe how many negative reactions I get from people on the RWD architecture!

I believe this is the harvest ground for Audi. Actually, people desire a BMW, but they chose the Audi for the FWD!!
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      08-14-2012, 05:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
+1 this has to be the worst post from scott26, sucking up to BMW marketing department and they are trying to feed us all this crap that all of a sudden FWD is not a bad thing. they must think that people have memory like Gold Fish and have forgotten all their ultimate drive machine adverts slagging off FWD cars, oh and yes I forgot that it is going to be revolutionary like Merc B Class
Hey Sol, chassis balance on FWD has increased dramatically the last decade, just check out the Golf Gti and Focus ST. The evolution there was steep uphill, while the classical already perfectly balanced 50/50 RWD configuration they sold us as the only ultimate in the past didn't really evolve on dynamics.

BTW, BMW also told us bimmers would never-ever have a diesel engine, then a gasoline turbo engine, than an M never would have forced induction, and an M never would be automatic. Probably BMW would also never go into SUV's either, certainly not the Ms... but look what they offer now!
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      08-14-2012, 05:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Iron Man View Post
I thought the whole idea of luxury and premium is for exclusivity. Pushing volume and diluting the brand in the name of increasing profits, while following the sheeple, sounds like Accountants are running the show. You can see where that got GM, Chrysler, etc.

Brand is all about the product, and last I seen FWD cars are not "Ultimate Driving Machines", which is supposedly all BMW builds according to their ads. So, what will BMW's new slogan be...
Iron man, BMW has to survive as one of the last independant car manufacturers. They already made clear they want to sell their technology to increase volumes and reduce writing off investments on a relative small number of cars since more than a decade.

When you don't sell one million a year, you're dead meat, that was the word in the early nineties already!! BMW is not like Bentley, or Maybach or Bugatti or Porsche or Lamborghini or... which all belong to a mother group and can only deliver by having free access to 85% of the parts already available. BMW stands alone and can share almost no technology although they try very hard.

Premium is not equal to exclusive and GM and Chrysler have nothing to compare to BMW. Those are certainly not premium.
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      08-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
also don't forget that a lot of this has to do with the fact that they want to keep their rapidly shrinking sales lead over audi and brag about the fact that they are the biggest premium car manufacturer. they would lose the lead to Audi sooner or later as they can not compete with the economy of the scale of VW group and are fighting a losing battle
Exactly spot on! FWD will allow the RWD platform, we clearly desire, to survive within a mass market segment like 1/3 and 5series! When the FWD is not brought in, it will probably end within ten years from now. I fully agree!
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      08-14-2012, 05:37 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I have to agree--just said the same basic thing (over different reasoning) in the M2-I4/I6 debate on the 1addicts page.

I feel like I will really be looking elsewhere next time...and my last 4 cars have been BMWs...
Maybe you shouldn't: bmw is indeed violating the "dogma's" it has sold us in the past, but technology went on very fast lately. In the past, I was mad at BMW to just bluntly state idiot things like: 'never we will offer a diesel' or 'never an M will have forced induction'. So yes, their MKT (and design) department should be punished severly to sell this crap and lie to us.

But to us as customers, that's all sunk cost. Now is now, and I'am glad they don't respect the borders of their own crap. They would be dead within 10 years from now when they would.

Next time you buy a car, just compare it to the competition. Passing the ultimate test is that they still are on top in feel even when they feature a 1.0-3cil engine.
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      08-14-2012, 05:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Superspeed View Post
The problem is that there are no other manufacturers left in the RWD compact car market. If you want a compact car in the future it will be FWD (or AWD). And if so you might just as well buy it from BMW

Let's hope they at least keep one sporty RWD niche car for the enthusiasts, paralel to the FWD platform. Toyota just reintroduced RWD on a niche model. If the Japanese see this business oportunity, why not BMW?

BMW Group should let Mini take care of the FWD business (where they do a good job) and let the BMW brand take RWD to even higher levels, loyal to it's heritage and faithful customers.

But what do I know, being just a simple engineer and not a fancy marketing expert
Seen the car park you own(ed) I don't believe you're just a simple engineer.

Maybe you should bring in your idea that Mini doesn't have the broad appeal like BMW has. They have their original three doors mini, but all the rest they try is not really highly successfull either. So they don't seem to be able to easily move out of the city car segment.

BMW probably needs faster and broader leverage via their own FWD product. Also probably the entire customer group in the lowest BMW segment, don't car a bit for the RWD. Even more, they would probably pay even extra to have a FWD equivalent!! Profitability is higher since assembly cost is lower.

All this, of course, in order to survive and build us sufficient nicely balanced RWD platforms. This, as the only remaining RWD mass market manufacturer!
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      08-14-2012, 05:59 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by kooper View Post
This is getting... interesting. I read somewhere not too long ago that most automotive CEOs say that in order for a company to survive in the future, it must be able to sell at least 3 million cars per annum.

Where is BMW these days, 1.7, 1.8 mil? I'm thinking this FWD model is a stab at upping units.

However... I've also read a crazy thought from some well respected journalist (I cannot remember that journalist's name btw.) that BMW and Mercedes (yes, Mercedes) might be thinking about sharing certain platforms and joining forces. Kind of like a merger without the merger part.

He detailed that it does make sense for both companies since most of their products are in the same segments (3 and C, 5 and E, S and 7, X5 and ML etc.). He speculated that we probably shouldn't expect to see shared chassis and engines between the two, but a lot more shared parts nonetheless. The S and 7 would apparently be kept separate since these are considered the "crown jewels" of each company.

Got your attention yet? Well, he also went on to say that the one model not quite fitting in in this grand plan was...

...wait for it...

--> The RWD 1 Series <--


It's about 2 years I reckon since I read that article, and here we are. A FWD BMW 1 Series is about to see the light of day very, very soon.

You have to admit, it does sort of stack up if you do the math: FWD 1 Series and A/ B Class models sharing numerous parts and suppliers, same for future 3 and C, and 5 and E. Perhaps even more models than that.
The thing with this strategy is that it's unlikely that it will help either BMW or Mercedes reach 3 mil. units per annum, but it will probably decrease costs dramatically.

Will it happen? Will we be seeing a 1 Series GT ala B Class shortly after the FWD 1 Series? Will BMW and Merc jump into bed together? Can we expect a BMW-Benz any time soon? Hold on to your buttcheecks folks, there be strange times ahead (maybe).


EDIT: Also maybe worth pondering, is it any coincidence that the new A Class has ditched the sandwich floor?
Very intersting theory! In the past, the official contacts between Merc and BMW where negative. Probably Benz wants to play the charts seen their dominance, but BMW will not as such subdue either. The new A class has an engine of Renault/Nissan now, so even the premium merc is willing to throw in a less than premium engine in the A!?

The sandwich floor disappeared since it was way too expensive, rather heavy and not technological dominant on longer term. The new A-class has become a hatchback and is no longer a mini SUV so sandwich is obsolete now.
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      08-14-2012, 06:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
This may share the Mini Traveller platform. I think the rear doors will slide back too from what I understand. I hope and pray BMW makes them look better then this. Also BMW better give these Baby BMW's Rear-Bias xDrive of sorts or they are telling their core customers not to consider buying the entry level stuff.
well... BMW design is far from unspoken lately. I hoped the Bangle era was over, but Adrian is having a party at BMW headquarters also I'am afraid. I also do hope they make something less controversial from it this time.
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      08-14-2012, 08:44 PM   #62
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It was a bigger cultural jump for Porsche when it decided to make a 4x4 and then add a diesel model. Now the cayenne is its biggest selling and most profitable model. The positive is it allows technology economy of scales, which benefits the development of the 911, boxster and cayman models...so a fwd BMW model is a much lesser jump and will have more of an effect on the next mini and act as a bridge between the two marks.
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      08-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Exactly spot on! FWD will allow the RWD platform, we clearly desire, to survive within a mass market segment like 1/3 and 5series!
Or..... FWD could spread like wildfire throughout the line-up. I think that is what most people are worried about. Because even if they say it will be limited to the 1-GT we all know how much faith to put in what they say they won't do.
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      08-16-2012, 11:26 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
and I hope the extra cost of R&D and manufacturing porocesses that has to go into this new FWD cars doesn't have a bigger impact on the mainstream products like 3er and 5er. they are a business and would have to keep their cost down ultimately to keep the shareholders happy. same thing happened with Mercdes a decade ago when they were trying to expand rapidly and as the results took their eyes off the ball and quality of their mainstream products deteriorated rapidly and eventually resulted in them losing fair bit of their customers and their status as number 1 premium car manufacturer. this FWD thingy is going to happen whether we like it or not but to me the purity of the brand is gone and I see it no different to Merc or Audi.
I assume that the cost will be limited seen they recuperate the Mini platform or not? I shared your fare when they started to invest massively into the SUVs line-up X1,3,5,6 which I don't like since seriously conflicting with the typical "dynamics" value of the brand. But I guess it didn't have too much of a negative impact on the 1/3/5/7-series either?
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      08-16-2012, 11:32 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Or..... FWD could spread like wildfire throughout the line-up. I think that is what most people are worried about. Because even if they say it will be limited to the 1-GT we all know how much faith to put in what they say they won't do.
That could happen but is unlikely. BMW (like Merc) deliver powerfull variants with massive torque. In FWD configuration, they'll need AWD like Audi. This almost entirely eliminates the postive points of FWD (light/spacious/ease of assembly). Of course, you can market it by stressing the security and traction advantages it brings.

For high performance, RWD is still top. But, when all 535d, 550i and M5 buyers trade in their car for a 520d and 520i, than we best start fearing for the RWD future.
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      08-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #66
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Autobild have spoilt the surprise in some regards a few weeks early as they preview the 1er Compactive Sports Tourer in their latest issue.

No matter what you think about the concept, BMW's curent focus is on a product offensive and by that , concepts that can be conceived by extensive matrix sharing and the latest modular platforms.
The vehicles due from BMW over the next year are purely profit driven products.

The 1er Compactive Sports Tourer and the BMW 3er Gran Turismo will both be shown in concept form at the Paris Autoshow in September.
Marking the first spun-off models from the existing 1er and 3er portfolios.
And the first generation of a new profitable MINI family.
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