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      08-03-2012, 11:56 PM   #133
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You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
My first nice car was an STi and I loved every min. of the drone. But that is a boxer 4 banger I am a current owner of an N54 equipped 335i and I will not go back to the inline 4 easily.


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      08-04-2012, 01:17 AM   #134
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I have no problem with the N20 as long as they can make it high revving w/gobs of torque.
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      08-04-2012, 04:23 AM   #135
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If by "lower weight" they mean get the car down to 1250 to 1300kg, then by all means go right ahead.

Just regarding the cries about the M brand being diluted (and please stop reading now if you're not in the mood for a bit of a rant), if you want to blame anyone for the current state of affairs, then blame the buying public.
In today's world where a Merc S65, S63, ML63, R63, G63 (or G55? I don't know) and a whole bunch of other AMG cars sell, it would be naive to think that BMW would just keep making an M3 and an M5 forever.
"But BMW could at least use a different naming convention for the non-traditional M cars!" you say? Sure they could've, but the fact is that the M badge carries a lot more weight than "iS" or some other completely new badge.

People want to be able to buy an X5M, or an X6M, and probably an X3M and X1M as well. That's why M is expanding. Not because BMW just decided one morning that they are going to slap an M badge on all of their cars, but because people buy stuff that carries an important badge.
In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they bring out an M5 GT or an M7 in the not too distant future, and I'd be even less surprised to see a whole bunch of these cars frequenting some of the local highways shortly after.

It works for AMG to take virtually the same engine (in different states of tune) and stuff it in almost all of their cars, from the S Class right down to the SLK. That means much lower R&D costs, which means more profit on every unit sold. It also means being able to sell a far wider range of products, which also ups the all-important profit figure. And no, I'm not blaming MB or AMG, they just happen to be a very good example.

To be honest, I think we're somewhat lucky that at least we still sort of get 'bespoke' engines for differing lines of M cars. "M" still means that it's not just a tuned version of a garden-variety car, but that some extra thought went into the engineering of it.

In short, here's why M is expanding:
Typical person A: "Hey bro, I just got me a new BMW, bro! It's a 5 Series Sdrive50i GT. It's going to drop some panties, bro!"
Typical person B: "Oh nice one bro! Is it RWD?"
Typical person A: "I don't know bro, I think it's FWD... What's RWD?"
Typical person B: "That's rad bro! Hey, is it the M version?"
Typical person A: "Wait let me check... No it's not bro, I'm not seeing 'M' anywhere!"
Typical person B: "Aah bro, you need to get the M version! It has an M badge on the back with like 3 colored stripes next to it. ...Bro."
Typical person A: "Right... I knew that bro, this one's just my temporary wheels until my 5 Series M5GT Sdrive9000i gets delivered yo!"
Typical person B: "Bro, that is sweeet!"
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      08-04-2012, 04:31 AM   #136
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I don't want to own a m car anymore.
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      08-04-2012, 05:31 AM   #137
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I don't want to own a m car anymore.
I hope that's not because of my previous post lol. I wasn't trying to attach a stigma to M cars, just trying to illustrate that if enough people revere something that it inevitably becomes a symbol of social status.
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      08-04-2012, 06:10 AM   #138
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It`s not rocket-science; a lighter car, needs a less powerful engine and less heavy drivetrain, also fuel consumption is less.

A 4 banger is lighter on the nose and will improve steering quality ( although I like the 6 IL a lot)

So 1300 kg and 300 HP and a lot of Nm through turbo technology could be fine with me. But it is already clear that the 1 series have grown in size and weight compared to the outgoing E8X 1 series, so 1300 kg is a happy thought but can`t be real IMHO

There is another problem, how can this be done with already a M135i 6 IL and 320 horses? That doesn`t add up for me.

Most likely the 1M successor as 2M/M2 will be a down sized F8X M3 engine, more than 320 HP (M135i) and less than 450 HP (F8X M3 territory)

Anyway, let us be surprised

Last edited by Romo; 08-04-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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      08-04-2012, 06:27 AM   #139
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In theory I'm sure it could work. To be an M-car it has to rev high and sound great. If the car is lighter, it could work with a bit less power than the 1M.

My main concern is the sound...
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      08-04-2012, 07:04 AM   #140
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I am OK with 4 cylinder turbo in M2 as long as the M2 is a lot lighter and under 3000 lbs in weight. If the 4 cylinder makes close to 330 plus horsepower and torque in such a light weight package it will be a beast of a car from performance point of view.

Also, more then the engine cylinder count I would like to see a very free/fast and fairly high revving performance engine that sounds great. It offers great fuel economy and does not have narrow band of power.

My biggest concern with future M cars is not with the engine choices but rather the electric steering wheels. These new electric style steering wheels rob the great feel and feed back we have all come to expect from current hydraulic setups in BMW cars. All I know is I have not been impressed with the steering feel of the back then all new 2011 F10 5 series with or without the sport plus settings. Too artificial for my taste. I was glad to get back into my E92.
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      08-04-2012, 08:09 AM   #141
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I can't believe all the people here whining that it won't be an I6. The M3 started with a four cylinder!

Cars (even M cars) have gotten so big and so complicated, it's ridiculous. Two of the most fun cars I ever owned were a 1979 Rabbit and a 1st gen MR2.

Rabbit: 1700
MR2: 2300

Neither car was "fast". Quite to the contrary, they were both horribly slow, but both had manual steering and weighed over 1000 lbs less than any M car you can currently buy. The Rabbit in particular was really something else. The MR2 was great, with it's mid-engine layout, but I always felt like it was going to kill me (snap oversteer). The Rabbit could be tossed around like a beach ball. So much fun.

The original M3 used an I4 because that engine made the most sense. When the M3 moved to an I6, there were plenty of people who were disappointed. While an I6 has perfect balance, it's one of the least space/weight efficient engine designs. Don't get me wrong, I love an I6, and the trade off in space/weight is an easy thing to get past, but when you *really* want small and light, it's hard to justify.

I really do hope BMW goes with the "light is right" philosophy with the M2. It could very well make the M2 the most pure M-car since the 1M. If you wan an I6, by an M3. If you want a V8, step up and buy an M5, or go buy yourself a Boss Mustang or Camero SS.
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      08-04-2012, 08:53 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
I don't want to own a m car anymore.
Good.
1 down, 7531 more whiners to go.
Let's keep the M cars more exclusive!
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      08-04-2012, 09:20 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Good.
1 down, 7531 more whiners to go.
Let's keep the M cars more exclusive!
+10000000000000
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      08-04-2012, 11:31 AM   #144
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Bmw ///M is a mass marketing car since e39 m5. Its just as it is, built in same line as poor-europeans 520d. Its funny to read worlds like "exclusive" here. You got crazy about exclusive things - go buy something else.

And Im ok with 4-inline in the upcoming m2.
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      08-04-2012, 11:36 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Good.
1 down, 7531 more whiners to go.
Let's keep the M cars more exclusive!
///M is made for hardcore drivers to take the car on circuit and take it to the limits, not because its exclusive or to impresse the neighbours.

Become a carlover and not a badgelover.
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      08-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #146
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The move makes some sense looking at the market and regulation.
They have to offset the fleet average and to do so you have to downsize your engines and car size, and BMW isn't doing the later.
Another view to look at it, MB is going 4cylinder Turbo with the upcoming A45 AMG (or whatever it's named) & Audi is getting the same hp & tq out of a 5cylinders on the RS3..
With the proper tuning, you can have 300+hp out of a 4 banger. Mitsu & Sub are doing it, depend on where the cars are marketed..

My problem isn't with the powertrain as long as it gets the proper hp and performance to satisfy the M name. My problem is with the stupid look of the F20..
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      08-04-2012, 12:44 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY View Post
Bmw ///M is a mass marketing car since e39 m5. Its just as it is, built in same line as poor-europeans 520d. Its funny to read worlds like "exclusive" here. You got crazy about exclusive things - go buy something else.

And Im ok with 4-inline in the upcoming m2.
You totally missed my point, all I'm saying is "STOP B**ching if your're not going to buy one"
Tell me how many real M owners b**ch about their own M cars, very rare.
Only the real M owners will know what that "exclusive" means.
Not talking about the stupid "social status" or the badge here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Machientje View Post
///M is made for hardcore drivers to take the car on circuit and take it to the limits, not because its exclusive or to impresse the neighbours.

Become a carlover and not a badgelover.
Yup, I loved the "M" badge so much I bought 2 of my Ms to impress my neighbors. And you're right, M cars shouldn't be on the public road, they should all be on the race track and leave them there.
And I do take my car to the track once in awhile

Last edited by Lemon Jelly M3; 08-04-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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      08-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
I don't want to own a m car anymore.
Good.
1 down, 7531 more whiners to go.
Let's keep the M cars more exclusive!
Well that's never gonna happen. There's a m badge for every model in the range now.
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      08-04-2012, 12:50 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Well that's never gonna happen. There's a m badge for every model in the range now.
Again, you're talking about the M badges.
I am talking about the M car
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      08-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #150
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Well that's never gonna happen. There's a m badge for every model in the range now.
Again, you're talking about the M badges.
I am talking about the M car
The average person won't know the different. Therefore diluting your exclusivity


Let's face it owning a M car hasn't been exclusive for a few model generations now. And with the release of the 1m x5/6m that exclusivity further got diminished.

I've owned a few M cars. And as much I love my m3 I'm disappointed that it is so heavy. I'm annoyed the m division is fixing its weight problem with more power and turbos.

But that's just me.
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      08-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
I've owned a few M cars. And as much I love my m3 I'm disappointed that it is so heavy. I'm annoyed the m division is fixing its weight problem with more power and turbos.

But that's just me.
That's why the 1M is so cool. And for that matter the 1 series lineup. My 1 is almost exactly the same size as my E36 M3 was...
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      08-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #152
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M Products are proven purely by demand and if you compare 10 years back to today the market is more expansive for M Products and that is the sign of progress for the entire industry.
BMW M could not just survive with two models the M3 and M5 they had to expand that is why from 2005 the first expansion model the M6 came because there was demand from other markets for a high end performance model from BMW M.

As I mentioned a four is being considered but seems the more logical choice (in theory) in overall placement.

Haroldwood.
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      08-04-2012, 02:36 PM   #153
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Everyone bummed about the M1 M2 coming with a 4 cylinder should listen to the future A45 AMG engine. It doesn't sound bad at all, it can go in the mids 300 HP and if you google a bit you can also find a video of the AMG A class exhaust sound for a few seconds(found it once hidden somwhere and sounded nice, even the guy filming it seemed pretty impressed of the sound and he was driving a new 911 I think).
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      08-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #154
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As far as I'm concerned, if the next 1M/ M2 or whatever it's going to be called comes out with a turbo 4, and it's a fun car, then it's all good.

And I don't really care whether BMW suddenly decides to replace every single car in their lineup with M-badged models (M316i anyone?), just so long as they remain good, fun cars. Exclusivity be damned, if you want exclusivity then buy a Maybach.
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