BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > BMW M2 May Feature Smaller Less Powerful Engine (Turbo 4) Than 1M Coupe? Discuss
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      07-11-2012, 03:09 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jprooney View Post
Well i don't think the next 1M (M2) will have a smaller engine than the out coming M135, it just wouldn't make sense and more important it will cause problems with potential buyers regarding exhaust notes, maybe the M135 would end being more tunable because of it being an I6 instead of an I4 and many other things.
I'd lay odds on the M2 having a twin-turbo 4 cyl engine....and being very light.

The forthcoming AMG version of the new A-Class is going to have a tuned 2.0L 4 cyl turbo engine......reputably with around 330hp and 300lbs/ft....as well as a Haldex awd system.

......"The A45 AMG is powered by a heavily revised version of the 2.0-litre turbo four that lesser A Classes will use, AMG's big guns assured us that the A45 will a) have the highest specific output of ANY car, eclipsing even the McLaren 12C, which points to around 330bhp b) more than 300lb ft of torques and c) will sound ruddy marvellous, despite its cylinder deficit. Over to Fritz Eichler, AMG's head of powertrain. ‘The sound our cars make is hugely important, we know that. Which is why I've said to my guys, "I want this thing to sound like a Rory Gallagher guitar solo".' This is our sort of analogy........"
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      07-11-2012, 03:17 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I'd lay odds on the M2 having a twin-turbo 4 cyl engine....and being very light.

The forthcoming AMG version of the new A-Class is going to have a tuned 2.0L 4 cyl turbo engine......reputably with around 330hp and 300lbs/ft....as well as a Haldex awd system.

......"The A45 AMG is powered by a heavily revised version of the 2.0-litre turbo four that lesser A Classes will use, AMG's big guns assured us that the A45 will a) have the highest specific output of ANY car, eclipsing even the McLaren 12C, which points to around 330bhp b) more than 300lb ft of torques and c) will sound ruddy marvellous, despite its cylinder deficit. Over to Fritz Eichler, AMG's head of powertrain. ‘The sound our cars make is hugely important, we know that. Which is why I've said to my guys, "I want this thing to sound like a Rory Gallagher guitar solo".' This is our sort of analogy........"

I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros! Base price is 27K I think he said. I was shocked they were asking that much. And 210 Hp was a joke for that kind of money. That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!

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      07-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros!
AMG version hasn't been released yet (next year I think) although I believe a few likely AMG version test mules have been spotted around and about in camo markings.

Not surprised you thought it's junk....MB stopped making good cars years ago
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      07-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
... That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!
...

No to sound like a typical 1Addict but.....

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      07-11-2012, 10:31 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros! Base price is 27K I think he said. I was shocked they were asking that much. And 210 Hp was a joke for that kind of money. That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!
And the A-Klasse concept during last yr's NYIAS looked so promising...

Some pics I took here:
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      07-11-2012, 10:37 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
And the A-Klasse concept during last yr's NYIAS looked so promising...

Some pics I took here:
No pics T
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      07-11-2012, 10:40 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papethova View Post
No pics T
Oooops, sorry, forgot to include the thread where I had posted, sorry guys:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=NYIAS+concept
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      07-15-2012, 05:26 PM   #96
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Lets get a few things correct first of all.

Something that must be known is that despite "enthusiasts" and media reaction to the BMW X5M and X6M. Both cars are one of M's most successful models to date , in strategic growth markets such as Russia , China , Brazil and the Middle East , these XM models outsell the BMW M3 even by considerable margin.
To M. Both X5M and X6M are "volume" models because they sell in numbers and generate numbers. NO ONE has lost their position because of the X5M and X6M. If you really want to know...
The Father of the X5M and X6M currently is the CEO of BMW North America and one of Norbert Reithofers trusted lieutenants.
He is also responsible for the conception of the BMW M5 and its originally planned reworked V10. The BMW M5 was finalised under Dr. Kay Segler who is mainly responsible for the current M6 Coupe and Cabrio and BMW 1M Coupe.
Segler also commenced the M Performance models and conception of the BMW M3/M4 and started initial gestation of the BMW X4M.

Dr.Segler returned to MINI in order to create the MINI Cooper S JCW GP.
A MINI that is more about substance than style.

Yes that is right , BMW X4M. The upcoming Sport Activity Coupe for the mid-level segment is to get the M treatment , because it has potential to capture more of the market than the X6M. Demand from the X6M is still strong and the overall concept has spurned BMW's competitors in creating alternative options. BMW see the car that will provide the market with this challenge is the Porsche Macan, as they will be similar models with one goal.
X4M will take the reworked six-cylinder engine from the upcoming M3 but engineers aim to make the X4M more a renowned dynamic challenger and will be investing engineering in the dynamics , more relevant updated torque vectoring control and reworked dampers aimed at making the X4M a formidable force to be reckoned with.

To say the 1M was "cannibalizing" M3 sales fail to understand the intention of the "entry" M. 1M owners and first time M owners I have talked to on our German "adventures" tell me they could not afford the M3 in the first place.
That was the 1M's greatest advantage - Price.

The same formula is carried over for the M2, it will be basically be everything on the level of the first car , but will be lighter. Expect another parts-bin sharing with the next M3 but that will be an advantage once again.
The greater advantage for the M2 is time. Development has begun and there is opportunity for progress after standard models.
BMW M. are looking at initial standard models then follow-through performance editions later aimed at a more hardcore audience than the standard quasi-luxury M buyer.

Engine choice is seen as an Four cylinder logically for the M2 because of the six cylinder in the M3 M4 and X4M. But if costs come into effect a detuned
N55 could be possible. The N20 based Four is being bench-tested, watch out for still disguised M135i's.
To understand the intention of the next M2 the development budget and time frame is greater than the eighteen months for the 1M Coupe but considering the time frame and resources you did get a highly memorable car that there is no denying.
Chassis engineering is very much the defining factor for an M. If the base car is exceptional to drive then you have a good platform to build on , if you only have an average chassis then you lose that advantage. You only have to look at why Audi's latest performance models the Audi SQ5 and RS4 have barely registered in the precision category. If you look at the BMW X3, 3er and indeed the BMW M135i then you know the plaudits will provide a good platform on which to build. You just know that the next generation of BMW M3 , X4M and M2 will be exceptional.
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      07-16-2012, 12:45 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Lets get a few things correct first of all.

Something that must be known is that despite "enthusiasts" and media reaction to the BMW X5M and X6M. Both cars are one of M's most successful models to date , in strategic growth markets such as Russia , China , Brazil and the Middle East , these XM models outsell the BMW M3 even by considerable margin.
To M. Both X5M and X6M are "volume" models because they sell in numbers and generate numbers. NO ONE has lost their position because of the X5M and X6M. If you really want to know...
The Father of the X5M and X6M currently is the CEO of BMW North America and one of Norbert Reithofers trusted lieutenants.
He is also responsible for the conception of the BMW M5 and its originally planned reworked V10. The BMW M5 was finalised under Dr. Kay Segler who is mainly responsible for the current M6 Coupe and Cabrio and BMW 1M Coupe.
Segler also commenced the M Performance models and conception of the BMW M3/M4 and started initial gestation of the BMW X4M.

Dr.Segler returned to MINI in order to create the MINI Cooper S JCW GP.
A MINI that is more about substance than style.

Yes that is right , BMW X4M. The upcoming Sport Activity Coupe for the mid-level segment is to get the M treatment , because it has potential to capture more of the market than the X6M. Demand from the X6M is still strong and the overall concept has spurned BMW's competitors in creating alternative options. BMW see the car that will provide the market with this challenge is the Porsche Macan, as they will be similar models with one goal.
X4M will take the reworked six-cylinder engine from the upcoming M3 but engineers aim to make the X4M more a renowned dynamic challenger and will be investing engineering in the dynamics , more relevant updated torque vectoring control and reworked dampers aimed at making the X4M a formidable force to be reckoned with.

To say the 1M was "cannibalizing" M3 sales fail to understand the intention of the "entry" M. 1M owners and first time M owners I have talked to on our German "adventures" tell me they could not afford the M3 in the first place.
That was the 1M's greatest advantage - Price.

The same formula is carried over for the M2, it will be basically be everything on the level of the first car , but will be lighter. Expect another parts-bin sharing with the next M3 but that will be an advantage once again.
The greater advantage for the M2 is time. Development has begun and there is opportunity for progress after standard models.
BMW M. are looking at initial standard models then follow-through performance editions later aimed at a more hardcore audience than the standard quasi-luxury M buyer.

Engine choice is seen as an Four cylinder logically for the M2 because of the six cylinder in the M3 M4 and X4M. But if costs come into effect a detuned
N55 could be possible. The N20 based Four is being bench-tested, watch out for still disguised M135i's.
To understand the intention of the next M2 the development budget and time frame is greater than the eighteen months for the 1M Coupe but considering the time frame and resources you did get a highly memorable car that there is no denying.
Chassis engineering is very much the defining factor for an M. If the base car is exceptional to drive then you have a good platform to build on , if you only have an average chassis then you lose that advantage. You only have to look at why Audi's latest performance models the Audi SQ5 and RS4 have barely registered in the precision category. If you look at the BMW X3, 3er and indeed the BMW M135i then you know the plaudits will provide a good platform on which to build. You just know that the next generation of BMW M3 , X4M and M2 will be exceptional.

Thanks for the insight, as always, Scott.

I'm not surprised that the BMW of 2012 would greenlight an X4M, especially given the apparent news of the X3M's cancellation. For what it's worth, an M version of an X4 makes more sense than an X3, even though I will still argue that an M badge doesn't belong on any SUV, no matter its shape.

I'm definitely looking forward to the more enthusiast versions of the M2, M3, and M4, though I wish BMW will bring them to market as close to the "quasi-luxury" standard versions as possible. I have to assume that your most hardcore buyers are early adopters, and speaking for myself, I want to minimize the wait of getting the more focused performance model, especially if the standard ones are already out and about on the street. Additionally, I wouldn't want the wait for the focused models to be so long that the F8X replacements are right around the corner.

I know it's speculative at this point, but do you anticipate the F86 to get a standard quasi-luxury version as well as a more focused version?
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      07-16-2012, 02:13 PM   #98
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even though I will still argue that an M badge doesn't belong on any SUV, no matter its shape.
I would agree with that too, unless it was a 'proper' off-road capable vehicle with decent cross-axle articulation, ride height and locking diffs etc.,etc. and not some poncy blinged up drug dealer vehicle.

The M in ///M means motorsport not monstrosity......
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      07-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #99
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Well to be fair all of the bmw suv's not just the M versions are pretty much monstrosities. I mean its not like they actually work offroad.
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      07-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #100
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Well to be fair all of the bmw suv's not just the M versions are pretty much monstrosities. I mean its not like they actually work offroad.
From what do you base this conclusion? Have you ever taken one off road? I think you would be absolutely shocked at just how hugely capable the x5 is off the tarmac.
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      07-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #101
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From what do you base this conclusion? Have you ever taken one off road? I think you would be absolutely shocked at just how hugely capable the x5 is off the tarmac.
Don't agree. I have taken the X5 off road with a Land Rover Discovery 4 (LR4). The X5 wasn't even close in capability.

When they launched the X5, BMW coined the term "Sports Activity Vehicle." There was a reason. No low range gearing, no locking diff. BMW intended the X5 to be a great school run vehicle, rainy day vehicle, light snow vehicle. Yes, it can handle mild off roading in a capable way, but let's not pretend it's a Land Rover.

And then there's the X6 . ..
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      07-17-2012, 02:03 AM   #102
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And then there's the X6 . ..
lmaooooo
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      07-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #103
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And then there's the X6 . ..
And don't forget the X3:

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      07-17-2012, 12:58 PM   #104
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Gentlemen, Whatever anyone thinks about the X cars , they never should've been given an ///M badge.... Period. This sort of stuff is what is killing the ///M. Yes they are selling well but eventually M will mean 5000 lb, high drag, high CG rolling luxury arcades. That is why I remain hopeful but skeptical about how good or focused the M2 will be.... Which is what the thread is about .
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      07-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #105
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Getting back on track... I heard that the current e92/93 M3 will continue until June 2013. Any thoughts?
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      07-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #106
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Gentlemen, Whatever anyone thinks about the X cars , they never should've been given an ///M badge.... Period. This sort of stuff is what is killing the ///M.
Absolutely agree.

Putting a ///M badge on the X5 and X5 etc is selling ///M down the river (regardless of the corporate mumbo jumbo coming from within BMW about China sales and crap like that)
BMW could have easily created a new upmarket brand moniker for all that softroader dross instead of prostituting the ///M brand.
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      07-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #107
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Getting back on track... I heard that the current e92/93 M3 will continue until June 2013. Any thoughts?
YES ITS TRUE. per my dealer you can order through june 2013 . one of the last ones to be build.
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      07-17-2012, 02:31 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
New Merc A
Don't rule this AMG dwarf out too quickly. There's a market for powerful nimble cars.

Merc A25 AMG thread of last March: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668203

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      08-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #109
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You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
+1 .... my old evo ix mr with e85 upgrades and cams putting down 450/420 to all 4 wheels was not too shabby for an ole 4 banger. that was an 11 sec car with 4 passengers. LOL

but if you are talking in terms of just pulling hard at high speeds, yes eventually the 4 cylinder would start to die down.
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      08-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird

This sounds OK to my ears
I wish I was in the passenger seat
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