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      07-03-2012, 02:40 PM   #23
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I'd be interested in a turbo 4 cylinder with a 8k-9k RPM redline.
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      07-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird
This sounds OK to my ears [D
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      07-03-2012, 05:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
YES. The N54 has forged everything. Pistons, rods, crankshaft, ect... Everything is stronger and costs BMW more to produce.

The N55 has all cast parts, which are not as strong as forged internals. This is the reason why almost every tuner only delivers (tunes) the N55 for 360 Hp vs 380 ~ 400+ Hp for the N54.
I thought so, its just been a while since I last looked into all that Ill keep my N54 Thank you!!!



on another note I wonder why they chose to massively rework an N55 rather than the N54
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      07-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #26
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Because as of 2012 the N54 no longer meets US emmisions standards
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      07-03-2012, 05:36 PM   #27
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Makes sense. The next M3/M4 is supposed to be a stronger variation of the N55 (forged parts perhaps?). M2 will need to refrain from cannibalize sales/competing with the M3/M4. The current 1M is too much on a par with the E9x M3.

That said, BMW will probably squeeze 350HP out of a turbo 4 cyl ... thing is it has to be more power than the M135i
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      07-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird

This sounds OK to my ears
They sound OK only

Still prefer the sound of I6. The I6 ignition sequence is streamlined instead of the I4's stagged/skipping notes.

Some prefer the current V8's metallic sound, but a V10 sounds even better. Or a Ferrari V12
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      07-03-2012, 06:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Because as of 2012 the N54 no longer meets US emmisions standards
Its all coming back to me damn work got my mind other places! hehe
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      07-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Because as of 2012 the N54 no longer meets US emmisions standards
So you're saying the 2012 Z4is has the N55 and not the N54???
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      07-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
So you're saying the 2012 Z4is has the N55 and not the N54???
Why do you think that the 1M - despite being produced until Jan 1 2012 was labeled as a 2011 model?

It was to delay the onslaught of the federal regulations.

And to my knowledge it is. I just double checked BMW's website and they label it as a "TwinPower Turbo" and thats what they label the N55 as in media.
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      07-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Why do you think that the 1M - despite being produced until Jan 1 2012 was labeled as a 2011 model?

It was to delay the onslaught of the federal regulations.

And to my knowledge it is. I just double checked BMW's website and they label it as a "TwinPower Turbo" and thats what they label the N55 as in media.


For being the #1 1M troll, you should know more about BMW and the 1M. There is no 2012 US 1M because BMWNA didn't want to homologate a 2012 MY for such a low production number that was offered to them by BMW and not due to any emissions regulations. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ght=2012+naias I'm pretty sure CAFE standards are based on emissions by vehicle type and not by engine.

The 2012 Z4is indeed has the N54. BMW uses "Twin Power Turbo" designation for both twin turbo and twin scoll. Also, the N54 has only Double VANOS and the N55 has both Double VANOS and Valvetronic. Go triple check the BMW website and RealOEM website.
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      07-03-2012, 10:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
BMW uses "Twin Power Turbo" designation for both twin turbo and twin scoll.
IIRC, BMW uses the term "Twin Power Turbo" because of:

1. Turbo
2. Direct Injection

I don't think it has anything to do specifically with 'twin' turbos, nor 'twin' scrolls. By 'twin' they mean power delivery through two forms.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, BMW's latest phraseology is somewhat devoid of logic, as are their long model designations LOL
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      07-03-2012, 10:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
IIRC, BMW uses the term "Twin Power Turbo" because of:

1. Turbo
2. Direct Injection

I don't think it has anything to do specifically with 'twin' turbos, nor 'twin' scrolls. By 'twin' they mean power delivery through two forms.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, BMW's latest phraseology is somewhat devoid of logic, as are their long model designations LOL
LOL

I totally agree with you on BMW's phraseology and model designations.

Actually, the Twin is in reference to fuel injection technology and fully-variable performance control (either VANOS or Valvetronic or both).
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      07-03-2012, 11:35 PM   #35
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I'm not a troll - just having a discussion here. You could've just corrected me and left it at that. As I said in my post "to my knowledge" That means I'm open to correction if I'm wrong, and that there was a possibility of it.

But instead you try to start something. Way to try and troll out of nowhere idiot Cant we just have a talk anymore on these forums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post


For being the #1 1M troll, you should know more about BMW and the 1M. There is no 2012 US 1M because BMWNA didn't want to homologate a 2012 MY for such a low production number that was offered to them by BMW and not due to any emissions regulations. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ght=2012+naias I'm pretty sure CAFE standards are based on emissions by vehicle type and not by engine.

The 2012 Z4is indeed has the N54. BMW uses "Twin Power Turbo" designation for both twin turbo and twin scoll. Also, the N54 has only Double VANOS and the N55 has both Double VANOS and Valvetronic. Go triple check the BMW website and RealOEM website.
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      07-04-2012, 04:35 AM   #36
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Please don t believe everything Scott writes. He has been wrong a few times. He likes to hype the internet. I have listen a few times to him but i stopped reading his posts.

Last thing bmw wants is a high power 4 cil turbo with a lot of lag. If you want a lot of horse power out of a 4 cil engine you need bigger turbo s and that means more lag. A new M2 needs at least 350hp to make sales over a M135i.

Why is the 1M that good because it has almost the throttle response of a normal aspirated engine. A lot of base power is already coming from the 3.0 6 cil. The boost is not that high. Then you a get a nice throttle response.

I have driven/owned evo s and subaru s with 350hp and that is a lot throttle lag compared to the 1M.

I don t think bmw is going to develop a new ///M engine for the M2. They want to make money. The M2 is not the car which have the sales of an M3/M4 so if they want to make money of it it needs to be a partly parts bin car like the 1M is. That s not a bad thing like we all know now!!!

I think the best way is to put in detuned M3/M4 engine in it with aproxx 350hp.

First of all why does the 1M exist.

Because it uses a lot of parts from the M3 E92. Complete new development of an 1M would never happen. It all about the money guys. I think the same counts for M2. Maybe they use the same engine of the 1M and rework it to get better co2 and add 10hp.

I do think they are testing a 4 cil in an M2. But after a few back to back tests with an 1M they know which way to go.
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      07-04-2012, 05:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
... First of all why does the 1M exist.

Because it uses a lot of parts from the M3 E92. Complete new development of an 1M would never happen. It all about the money guys. I think the same counts for M2. Maybe they use the same engine of the 1M and rework it to get better co2 and add 10hp.

I do think they are testing a 4 cil in an M2. But after a few back to back tests with an 1M they know which way to go.
+1

Back in Oct '11 the 1M lead engineer mentioned that the new M3 test platform would ready also for the 1M successor.
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      07-04-2012, 06:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
Maybe they use the same engine of the 1M and rework it to get better CO2 and add 10hp.
Porsche holds a patent for that method.

The following ///M info trickled down from the new BMW M boss in July 2011 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...#ixzz1zeHPjj5h + http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/07/n...ple-turbo-six/)

"New M3 leads M Car boom
The next flagship BMW 3 Series will be powered by an amazing 450bhp tri-turbo engine
Get ready for a boom in M cars. The boss of BMW’s M Division, Dr Friedrich Nitschke, has confirmed that a raft of new models wearing the famous badge is on the way – with the M2 to be joined by a powerful M3 and a successor to the M1 supercar.
“Our pace of development must accelerate,” he told Auto Express in an exclusive interview. “We can build more cars, and we can build a wider range of cars.”
The new flagship 3 Series is due in 2014, and will feature a fresh 3.3-litre six-cylinder engine. This is set to get three turbos – one powered by electricity, rather than the exhaust gases – and is rumoured to offer 450bhp. A mix of steel and ultra-light carbon fibre-reinforced plastic in the body will help deliver huge pace.
But as Nitschke revealed, the car will also be efficient. “There will be a bigger focus on very low fuel consumption,” he said. “The new M3 will prove this.” However, this more eco-friendly approach won’t dilute the M Division’s high-performance appeal – as a replacement for the M1 supercar is finally coming close to reality.
This has been on the drawing board for more than 11 years, but only now does technology allow it to deliver the pace drivers would demand. “We have a fantastic history with the M1,” Dr Nitschke said. “The decision on developing this car is open. We’d love to do it.”
There’s no word on engines – but it would need a V10 or V12 to compete with rivals from Aston Martin, Lamborghini and Ferrari. If the project gets the green light, it’s unlikely to arrive before 2016.
The company is also looking at a successor to the ‘breadvan’ – the Nineties Z3M Coupe. “There’s no decision on an M version of the Z4,” added Dr Nitschke, “but this is something we could do easily.”
In addition, he spelled out a keenness for the M Division to “increase the speed with which we launch new models”. A lighter ‘CSL’ version of the new 1 Series M Coupe is on the cards, which could take cues from 2007’s tii concept."


"Next BMW M3 to get triple-turbo six
The BMW M3 has grown cylinders over the years like a pubescent pre-teen grows in height. What started out with an inline-four then grew into a straight-six for two generations before packing a V8 into the current model. The next one is expected to set to drop a couple of combustion chambers and go back to a single bank, but don't think for one minute that'll mean a drop in performance.
According to the rumormongers at AutoExpress, the next-generation M3, due sometime around 2014 after the new 3 Series comes along, will pack – wait for it – a triple-turbo straight-six. The innovative arrangement will reportedly include two conventional spools powered off exhaust gases and a third electric turbocharger. Total output could be around 450 horsepower – a bump over the current V8 model's 414 hp – with even more carbon fiber bits than the CRT edition pictured above to help keep weight down.
Not exciting enough? BMW's M division has plenty more in the cards, potentially including an oft-rumored new M1 supercar and, once the 1 Series M Coupe is done its production run, a lightweight CSL version. An M version of the Z4 is also under consideration, but of course nothing final until the cars make their debuts."


So actually, the 1M is some sort of new underpowered M3 CSL.
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      07-04-2012, 08:53 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird

This sounds OK to my ears
2013 turbo 4s vs 1980s large bore s14s are worlds apart. The carbon aribox on that car is louder than the exhaust........I had one and that sound is intoxicating. Sorry, not gonna happen with the N20.

T
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      07-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird, and vibrates too much
Yeah, the s14 and the motor in the Honda s2000 were awful motors. No one liked those. Lol.


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      07-04-2012, 09:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Pee
I think the the technology has progressed to the point where a turbo-charged 4 could have a lot of potential. I drove the Mk1 and Mk2 Cooper S which is a great example of how well a super/turbocharged 4-cylinder can be applied into a small, fun car.

I will probably never sell my 1M but a small, quick, and agile M2 would really tempt me away from the Porsche that I want as my next ride in a couple years.

These are some good times to be a car-geek, regardless!
You must be in error. According to sim sims, all 4s are horrible.

Someone call Mitsubishi and Subaru as well.
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      07-04-2012, 09:02 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes


I am strongly considering a m2 as I want to step up in performance/driving enjoyment and I hope that an M tuned 4 cylinder can deliver that.
BMW did it for years. E30. 318 and e30m3. revisionist history anyone?
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      07-04-2012, 09:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
IIRC, BMW uses the term "Twin Power Turbo" because of:

1. Turbo
2. Direct Injection

I don't think it has anything to do specifically with 'twin' turbos, nor 'twin' scrolls. By 'twin' they mean power delivery through two forms.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, BMW's latest phraseology is somewhat devoid of logic, as are their long model designations LOL

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      07-04-2012, 10:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
so im not the only one confounded by the new "X5 xDrive35i sport activity m-sport grand touring turiosmo" mile long designations??
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