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      07-03-2012, 08:37 AM   #1
Dackelone
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Exclamation BMW M2 May Feature Smaller Less Powerful Engine (Turbo 4) Than 1M Coupe? Discuss

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BMW insider Scott26 has recently mentioned that the 1M coupe's replacement - the M2 will be powered by a turbo four cylinder (N20 based engine) and that it may have less power than the 1M currently has. Why a turbo four? Presumably, because the new M3/M4 will be powered by a twin or tri turbo reworked N55 engine (or its successor). So it wouldn't come as a surprise that the M2 (1M successor) will be powered by a turbo four.

I wonder then, what will become of the M135i F20? Perhaps this model will go away once the M2 is released for sale on the market. Surely, BMW would not sell a 320 HP six cylinder M135i alongside an M2 powered by a four cylinder with not much more power.

This really is not new news. Scott reported this down sizing thinking before the 1M was even released for sale (see previous report). This is just the first time since then it has been mentioned again.

Discuss!

Scott26 recent post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
...Although work has commenced on the "Downsized" M, The M2 or the replacement for the most admired 1er M Coupe.

It is known as the "Downsized" M because BMW M are investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder in terms of the successor to the 1M offering the same recipe as before but with lower weight but still offering the entry to M ownership with the key of precision rather than outright power.
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      07-03-2012, 09:07 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I saw today that BMW insider Scott26 mentioned that the 1M's replacement, the M2 will be powered by a turbo four [...]
M2 powered by a four cylinder [...]
In August 2010 1addicts already quoted Scott26 about the four cylinder concept for the M2 which was then already in the course of being developed by BMW M (http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424637):

"There is a lot of this car [1M] that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions. E82 1M is showing what is possible in a small time-frame. F22 1M [M2] will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions."

Also re 1M development:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...27&postcount=2
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      07-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird, and vibrates too much
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      07-03-2012, 09:50 AM   #4
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It makes sense. BMW is back to the whole each size up in the M line has two more cylinders thing.

M3 is back to six M5/6 back to eight so it makes sense that they'd slot the car under with a 4 banger.
And hey I'm excited. It's not like BMW Motorsport doesn't have a great history with 4 cylinder engines
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      07-03-2012, 10:01 AM   #5
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This sounds very intersting to me. I'm not planning on selling my 1M. However, if I do, the 4-cylinder would be top choice on my list of replacements.

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      07-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #6
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down the road we could take that new M3 engine and put into 1M, that would be a beast... or maybe modify N54 with the parts from M3 engine.
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      07-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #7
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I think the the technology has progressed to the point where a turbo-charged 4 could have a lot of potential. I drove the Mk1 and Mk2 Cooper S which is a great example of how well a super/turbocharged 4-cylinder can be applied into a small, fun car.

I will probably never sell my 1M but a small, quick, and agile M2 would really tempt me away from the Porsche that I want as my next ride in a couple years.

These are some good times to be a car-geek, regardless!
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      07-03-2012, 10:53 AM   #8
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Wow an "extensively reworked and re-inforced N55 Six Cylinder"....

How do you think that will hold up to the N54?

I could see that being a prime choice to put the Vishnu ST upgrade on if it really is that much stronger/powerful. Hopefully the real details of the engine come out at some point...
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      07-03-2012, 11:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
Wow an "extensively reworked and re-inforced N55 Six Cylinder"....

How do you think that will hold up to the N54?

I could see that being a prime choice to put the Vishnu ST upgrade on if it really is that much stronger/powerful. Hopefully the real details of the engine come out at some point...
or take one of those engines and swap into a 1M/135/335 etc
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      07-03-2012, 11:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
Wow an "extensively reworked and re-inforced N55 Six Cylinder"....
Mind you, we were closing to getting the N55 engine for the 1M. Time was of the essence for developing the 1M. Valvetronic issues spoiled the party and led to shelving the initial plan for the 1M: exit N55 - enter N54. The next gen M3 will get the N55 engine (or the N55 serves at least "as basis" for it).

"We had initially toyed with the idea of a 1M when we were conceiving the Coupe and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car. [...] The initial engine proposal [for the 1M] was the N55 but they were having issues that cannot be solved within the time window. BMW greenlit this car in July 2009, now over a year later we see it as it [is] intended, although testing still commences until the launch. Valvetronic was the main cause of the time delay but BMW have spent some time on this and are using the N55 as a basis for the next M3."

(http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...79&postcount=1)
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      07-03-2012, 11:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird, and vibrates too much
You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
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      07-03-2012, 11:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
I love the subaru wrx exhaust notes. That aside, I have mixed feelings about the m2 being a four cylinder. With our 1M/135's comfortably tuned to 350-380whp going to any car tuned below that might not be as enjoyable at this point.

I am strongly considering a m2 as I want to step up in performance/driving enjoyment and I hope that an M tuned 4 cylinder can deliver that.
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      07-03-2012, 11:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
The Subarus do sound good but do not sound like your typical 4 banger due to the boxer design
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      07-03-2012, 12:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
I love the subaru wrx exhaust notes. That aside, I have mixed feelings about the m2 being a four cylinder. With our 1M/135's comfortably tuned to 350-380whp going to any car tuned below that might not be as enjoyable at this point.

I am strongly considering a m2 as I want to step up in performance/driving enjoyment and I hope that an M tuned 4 cylinder can deliver that.
I think the easily obtainable big HP days will soon be a thing of the past. It is fairly amazing when you think about how easy it is to get the n54 engine north of 400 WHP and have the power delivery and behavior of the car still be a comfortable and predictable daily driver.

You can squeeze that type of performance out of a turbo charged 4 cylinder, it just requires bigger turbos which leads to more lag and running out of revs. Maybe BMW will do a dual stage turbo setup to deal with this and still allow for 350+ WHP. We'll have to see, either way I'll be holding on to my 1M for a while.
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      07-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Mind you, we were closing to getting the N55 engine for the 1M. Time was of the essence for developing the 1M. Valvetronic issues spoiled the party and led to shelving the initial plan for the 1M: exit N55 - enter N54. The next gen M3 will get the N55 engine (or the N55 serves at least "as basis" for it).

"We had initially toyed with the idea of a 1M when we were conceiving the Coupe and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car. [...] The initial engine proposal [for the 1M] was the N55 but they were having issues that cannot be solved within the time window. BMW greenlit this car in July 2009, now over a year later we see it as it [is] intended, although testing still commences until the launch. Valvetronic was the main cause of the time delay but BMW have spent some time on this and are using the N55 as a basis for the next M3."

(http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...79&postcount=1)
Crazy, e46 CSL engine would have been a dream....

(Putting on flame suit) I just dont have time to search this ATM... is the N54 stronger than the N55? I couldve sworn I remember reading that. **Puttinn n00b hat on too
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      07-03-2012, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
STi comes with a flat 4.

I seriously doubt the next M2 is gonna have a flat 4.
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      07-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wichard20 View Post
The Subarus do sound good but do not sound like your typical 4 banger due to the boxer design
The main reason for the unique Subaru exhaust rumble are the unequal length exhaust headers connected to the boxer block. When equal length headers are bolted up, it sounds more akin to a typical four cylinder.
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      07-03-2012, 01:26 PM   #18
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i remember the auto bild writing about how the M1 (what they called the 1M back then) will have a four cylinder turbo engine with about 250hp and will be much lighter - that was about 3 years ago i think...
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      07-03-2012, 01:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
is the N54 stronger than the N55?
Interesting brief technical write-ups of 2009 (with designs) about the N55, thereby pointing out differences with the N54 (also check the comments):
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...55-engine.html

See also:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324282

More general:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55
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      07-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
I think the easily obtainable big HP days will soon be a thing of the past. It is fairly amazing when you think about how easy it is to get the n54 engine north of 400 WHP and have the power delivery and behavior of the car still be a comfortable and predictable daily driver.

You can squeeze that type of performance out of a turbo charged 4 cylinder, it just requires bigger turbos which leads to more lag and running out of revs. Maybe BMW will do a dual stage turbo setup to deal with this and still allow for 350+ WHP. We'll have to see, either way I'll be holding on to my 1M for a while.
absolutely. You can tune a 4 cylinder to 350-400HP. You can make some monsters out Sti's and Evo's but they really do require a lot more upgrades and do have trade offs that we don't with N54's. The type of power that you can easily and reliable get out of an N54 with some simple bolt ons and a tune is amazing. My friends comparable tuned sti/evo's required a lot more work and upgrades to get near where my 135i is.

I am only considering a m2 because the 1m is so limited. if i can get a used 1m around the time the m2 comes out, I may have to pending the m2 stats.
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      07-03-2012, 02:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird

This sounds OK to my ears
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      07-03-2012, 02:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
...is the N54 stronger than the N55?
YES. The N54 has forged everything. Pistons, rods, crankshaft, ect... Everything is stronger and costs BMW more to produce.

The N55 has all cast parts, which are not as strong as forged internals. This is the reason why almost every tuner only delivers (tunes) the N55 for 360 Hp vs 380 ~ 400+ Hp for the N54.
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