BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > ONE and TWO Series SUMMARY: -- BMW 1-series, 2-series, M2, and Z2
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      01-10-2012, 05:18 PM   #89
manuelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks SCOTT. Sounds like 2013 will be the year of the coupe for BMW. Good times for us enthusiasts. Of course, then we begin the long wait for the M models.
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That was exactly my thought
Scott: any predictions whether F22 M2 will come also 2013 or not until 2014?
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      02-23-2012, 07:21 PM   #90
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Nice to meet you here manuelf. I missed this thread.



I do not understand why so many want a 6 cylinder engine for the M2. If you want a 6 cylinder engine, or even an 8 cylinder engine, you'll ahve the M4 or even the M6.
What keeps me away from the 1M is the 6 cylinder engine. Remember the M3 E30 had an I4 whereas the 325i E30 has an I6.

For the M2 an I4 has only advantages over the I6:
-even if an I6 could get more power, BMW won't give it more because it would step on the M4 which will also have a 6 cylinder engine, so an I4 would get the needed power
-the I4 would be lighter than an I6 and thus the car will be less front heavy
-the I4 is shorter than the I6 so it would have better weight distribution


An N55Tu will not be M worthy, 1M was an exception, and S55 would be to close to M4. N20Tu would not reach reliable 350 PS from its 2.0l engine, and in general there is no reliable possiblity of increasing bore of both N20 and N55. The only possiblity left, and the best one, is half a cylinder bank from the M5 engine, so a 2.2l I4. An other possibility is to add two cylinders to the N16 engine, it would then give us a 2.4l I6 making 315 PS, if too keep the same numbers as the 1.6l I4 making 210 PS. But I think it would be too costly.

It is too early to know, but IF the M4 really get the 3.3l V6 derived from the 4.4l V8, I am 100 % the M2 will get the 2.2l I4 also derived from the 4.4l V8. The M4 with the V6 will not please everybody, but will perform better. For those that the 4 banger of the M2 will be insufficient they'll always have the M235i and 435i.



I would like Scott to chime in and make this point more clear or confirme some of what we said. I am really looking forward to this car, I was quite disapointed by the 1M.
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      02-23-2012, 11:37 PM   #91
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I think generally there is the perception that 4 cylinder engines with high pressure turbo charging have problems in high performance applications.

1) Excessive turbo lag in high pressure turbo engines.
2) Typically inadequate cooling and heat-soak issues that go against the concept of a vehicle with //Motorsport badges.
3) Highly stressed components that lack the durability found in a larger displacement 6 cylinder engine. Buyers of prestige brands have very high expectations of durability!
4) Will not sound like a BMW should.
5) 4 cylinder engine will have more vibrations due to imbalanced harmonics.
6) Gives the impression of cost cutting, so you are basically getting less for your money.
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      02-24-2012, 05:39 AM   #92
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I think you forgot the M3 E30 with its NA 2.3l I4. The M2 is meant to be an entry level sportscar and not a prestigious car. Just go get an M3 or an M6 if you want I6 or prestige. Your lag-story ahs no sense either, as in somehow in the 1M BMW managed to eliminate the lag the 135i had. Want do you want more? Just get the I6 M235i if you don't like the I4 M2.
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      02-24-2012, 06:12 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
I think generally there is the perception that 4 cylinder engines with high pressure turbo charging have problems in high performance applications.

1) Excessive turbo lag in high pressure turbo engines.
2) Typically inadequate cooling and heat-soak issues that go against the concept of a vehicle with //Motorsport badges.
3) Highly stressed components that lack the durability found in a larger displacement 6 cylinder engine. Buyers of prestige brands have very high expectations of durability!
4) Will not sound like a BMW should.
5) 4 cylinder engine will have more vibrations due to imbalanced harmonics.
6) Gives the impression of cost cutting, so you are basically getting less for your money.
^ Wot he said!

I have driven the Audi S3 with 2.0l 4cyl 260ish bhp and was not a fan at all.

The 2.5l 5cyl in the RS3 is a different matter.

6cyl and 3.0l was one of the main reasons for going with the 1M.
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      02-24-2012, 08:01 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I think you forgot the M3 E30 with its NA 2.3l I4.
That is naturally aspirated engine intended for touring car racing. It is very different from a high pressure turbo application in a modern road car.
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The M2 is meant to be an entry level sportscar and not a prestigious car. Just go get an M3 or an M6 if you want I6 or prestige.
Well I haven't seen the new M3, but I don't see the point in having a car any bigger than a E82 or E46.
Quote:
Your lag-story ahs no sense either, as in somehow in the 1M BMW managed to eliminate the lag the 135i had. Want do you want more? Just get the I6 M235i if you don't like the I4 M2.
The lag isn't bad in 135i, but has some lag unfortunately. I would expect a smaller displacement engine with more boost to have more lag, all things being equal. Maybe you are right about the hypothetical M235i vs M2, but I would rather not buy another car with suspension designed for runflats.
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      02-24-2012, 09:09 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
^ Wot he said!

I have driven the Audi S3 with 2.0l 4cyl 260ish bhp and was not a fan at all.

The 2.5l 5cyl in the RS3 is a different matter.
Why is it a different matter? It is still a high-pressure application. In fact, more power per litre than the 2.0 TFSI you mention. Can we really attribute the addtion of a cylinder to solving all the other issues? It is no I6, after all. Or perhaps was it just designed from the beginning to be a better high-po motor?
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      03-13-2012, 07:03 AM   #96
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Dr. Nitschke interview ...

From the interview of ///M boss Dr. Nitschke:

Is it safe to assume that will there will be a successor to the popular 1M coupe?
We sold more than 5000 units worldwide and we are thinking for a successor, but we haven't made a decision yet.

This "we haven't made a decission yet" to me somehow contradicts SCOTTS First post in this thread, where he stated:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

BMW M2
Following the same renaming, the F22 Coupe M will be called M2
Big success of the 1M made a great case for this M version
Significant weight saving
4-cylinder turbo engine
More development and production time (compared to 1M) makes BMW reconsider ideas forgone for the 1M.

Since it is given that the baby 1er M Coupe should really have followed through and be called M1 in relation to the rest of the M cars.
The inclusion of M2 allows the M Division to bypass that dilemma and offer a straight choice of M2. Following on from the exceptional response to the new 1er M Coupe. The new car allows more money and time and the ability to progress. Although the 1er M Coupe showcases what is possible in a tight time frame , BMW will work to emulate the current car by making sure that weight loss is significant a benefactor because it looks to it's forebears with the inclusion of a high performance four cylinder turbo charged engine.

The problem with the current car is it's short window in regards to further progress, there are ideas but not the money nor the time to do so.
This is something that will be rectified with the next generation as the regards to bring a successor "That will push the envelope" for small performance cars.
So I am currently abandoning all hopes for seeing a M2 before 2015 (and this would be too late for me )
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      03-13-2012, 08:09 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelf View Post
From the interview of ///M boss Dr. Nitschke:

Is it safe to assume that will there will be a successor to the popular 1M coupe?
We sold more than 5000 units worldwide and we are thinking for a successor, but we haven't made a decision yet.

This "we haven't made a decission yet" to me somehow contradicts SCOTTS First post in this thread, where he stated:



So I am currently abandoning all hopes for seeing a M2 before 2015 (and this would be too late for me )
Since M135i F20 is in the pipeline - no doubt they will top it with a coupe. The only question is if it will be a M2xxi or a true M2.
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      03-23-2012, 06:57 AM   #98
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What's the final verdict on US market - will we get any f20/f21 models? or just f22/23? I could really go for a luxury rear-wheel drive sporthatch and it seems that the Audi A3 sells well here, so why not?
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      03-23-2012, 10:52 AM   #99
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What's the final verdict on US market - will we get any f20/f21 models? or just f22/23? I could really go for a luxury rear-wheel drive sporthatch and it seems that the Audi A3 sells well here, so why not?
No F20/F21 hatchback for the US.
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      06-24-2012, 08:18 AM   #100
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Have the delayed the launch of the coupe in NA?The model release link shows early 2014 now[believe it was Mid 2013 in the past]. If that's true i will have to jump to a different boat as my lease expires in sep 13.
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      06-24-2012, 08:52 AM   #101
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There was simply no date set for the new coupé / s-series yet. So nothing to be delayed. There are not even testmules/prototypes on the road yet..
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      06-24-2012, 09:41 AM   #102
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There was simply no date set for the new coupé / s-series yet. So nothing to be delayed. There are not even testmules/prototypes on the road yet..
I was referring to this
http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/
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      06-24-2012, 10:03 AM   #103
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Still, its not very likely to see something on sale or even delivered in a bit over a year, if there are not even prototypes on the road. I wouldn't bet on a 2013-availability.
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      06-24-2012, 05:45 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthestck View Post
Have the delayed the launch of the coupe in NA?The model release link shows early 2014 now[believe it was Mid 2013 in the past]. If that's true i will have to jump to a different boat as my lease expires in sep 13.
from scott 26
I think you are talking about 2013 for the Coupe and Cabrio. They have only begun (or about to) start public testing.
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      06-24-2012, 05:49 PM   #105
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from scott 26
I think you are talking about 2013 for the Coupe and Cabrio. They have only begun (or about to) start public testing.
But the mode release matrix now shows Jan 2014 as internet reveal now.
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      06-24-2012, 10:39 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthestck View Post
Have the delayed the launch of the coupe in NA?The model release link shows early 2014 now[believe it was Mid 2013 in the past]. If that's true i will have to jump to a different boat as my lease expires in sep 13.
Mine is up in August of 2013 which is a shame because I was really looking forward to a new version of my 135i. I guess I can try to swing back into a 3 series.
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