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      04-29-2013, 02:35 AM   #24
SteveC
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You know what it takes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSimon View Post
There's countless examples of 300 years of expert opinion being proven wrong. It might have even been true back then; perhaps these master craftsmen made violins which shat all over other violins of the time.
Of course....that's called knowledge and progress. On the other hand there are not too many examples of a product still being consider superior in performance by people whose opinions we value, 300 years down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSimon View Post
I find it difficult to believe that violin makers of the past just lucked upon some perfect, unreproducable combination of wood grain, humidity and shape. And I find it even more difficult to believe that modern makers are unable to reproduce an equal or better product. The burden of proof is surely on those who believe a Stradivarius sounds better to prove it conclusively; until then it's just supposition.
I believe the listening trial we're discussing was just such an attempt. And would probably have succeeded, barring the obvious flaw in the test procedure. Of course had it worked you would probably not have read about it, as 'Scientists proves what we've known for 300 years' hardly makes compelling reading.

There are several examples of artisans pulling off tricks that remain a mystery to us today. The Pyramids and the Builders of Incan Peru are 2 that come immediately to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSimon View Post
Or maybe violinists who are aware that they're playing a hideously expensive instrument try harder, and therefore play it better
There's no doubt that aspect plays a role...however the Strads are renowned for their power and clarity of tone, which enables them to energise large concert halls spectacularly well. The point is...if you take a virtuoso violinist at the pinnacle of his or her career, the music they make on a Strad is stunningly beautiful, with qualities they simply can't extract from lesser instruments. And I would have to believe that an audience of 5000 hushed and expectant concert goers would outweigh the price of a violin in terms of motivation to play well

Finally, let me say that this has been an enjoyable and interesting debate, your Dunning-Kruger jibe not withstanding. I respect your 'if you can't measure it, it ain't real' viewpoint, not least because it will save you a lot of money and protect you from the hi-fi shysters, of which there are many. On the other hand don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. There are many products out there that sound superior, for reasons we don't fully understand....vacuum tube's sonic superiority being one major one. And there are products that sound better for reasons we do understand and can measure but which are denied because they don't fit with the dogma.....wire being one such example. In that regard, this paper by Ben Duncan makes interesting reading.
http://www.russandrews.com/images/ar...ion16Feb09.pdf

Remember, there's an easy way to check the efficacy of a hi-fi tweak or product upgrade. After a period of acclimatization simply reverse it. And if you like the music the same or better, don't use or buy it.

Finally, and with respect, time and experience will ultimately teach you that not everyone that holds an alternative opinion to yours is an uneducated chump. Reject everyone with an alternate view and you'll never learn and grow.

Thanks for the tips on posting quotes in boxes. Most appreciated

Last edited by SteveC; 04-29-2013 at 06:31 AM..
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