[Clifton]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Originally Posted by Clifton
It seems very apparent that with all those ruffled feathers of yours floating around that confined coop, you've missed some key points already made in this thread. Clifton, -please see responses in Red

1934: Citroën (and Chrysler) "pioneers" the FIRST mass-produced self-supporting monocoque vehicles. - Clifton, you are correct, Citroën and Chrylser were the true pioneers of the monocoque, not GM. GM "cribbed" the idea. This alone proves half of my statement was wrong. Gee, I'm feeling warm..

1955-1975: Citroën produces the DS 19, a self-supporting monocoque available with a plastic roof. - Clifton, you are correct, even though the DS 19 was mostly a metal, it did have a plastic panel (the roof), thus making my argument false.

1982: Citroën launches the BX, a self-supporting monocoque with extensive use of plastic body panels (bonnet, tailgate, bumpers). Citroën sells 2,315,739 units. Clifton, you really got me on this one, the BX "is" a monocoque frame and had body panels made of plastic. The BX signal handedly defeats my arugument that GM pioneered monococque with plastic panels. I Efthreeoh stand corrected.

1984: GM/Pontiac launches the Fiero, a turd on wheel that "cribbed" the idea to use a monocoque with plastic body panels from other manufactures. GM sells 370,168 units - whoop-dee-doo Yep, that is my favorite turd Clifton! For no reason at all, I'll include worthless other GM products to up the production count and no one will really know why I did except me.

Now, let's compare the above history with your original unmodified BOLD claim: - Clifton, I'm stuck in the 80's (my fiero is awesome!!!), please help me recap so that maybe I catch on.

Whomp, whomp, whahhhh - WRONG!

Clifton, as I said before, I THOUGHT GM was the pioneer but as you have proven over and over they weren't. And I did flame the Z1 for "cribbing" ideas that can directly be applied to the Fiero as well. (I'm going to deny that I flamed the Z1 or BMW for "Cribbing" - and say that Auto Week did )


Checkmate, again.... - Clifton, you are right, checkmate indeed


The Eftreeoh challenge: How about actually providing facts to your claim that with the Fiero, GM truly "pioneered" (as in was the first) "self-supporting monocoque" with plastic body panels. Clifton - I've yet to do this, but if I change my argument enough and add additional conditional clauses, maybe no one will notice...

I fixed all of that for you....

I know you keep trying to pretend you didn't say it, but your claim is not going away. It is wrong, you know and I know it and that is why you keep changing your story one post at a time.

Now, please try to pay attention and prove GM/Fiero pioneered a self-supporting monocoque" with plastic body panels.

The challenge still stands

The Eftreeoh challenge: How about actually providing facts to your claim that with the Fiero, GM truly "pioneered" (as in was the first) "self-supporting monocoque" with plastic body panels.